I keep looking at your forum title and thinking it's inaccurate. Shouldn't it be …?
Voice Of Authority
I keep looking at your forum title and thinking it's inaccurate. Shouldn't it be …?
Voice Of Authority
And Miro really does value the feedback. I haven't asked him, but I think his fabric choice on the final render of the WIP couch was probably a direct response to your feedback. Keep in mind, the couch and setting are stand ins. We're not ready to reveal actual props, furniture, and locations just yet.
For what it's worth, I thought that the change in materials for the couch (and setting generally) were excellent choices. My objections were oriented around how poorly visible they were because the lighting setup doesn't help AT ALL for being able to SEE them properly. :huh:
Now, if that was the plan all along, well … it's working ...
Yeah, I often think about posting more at GSB but I ultimately never do because I'm in the habit of doing all my personal blogging on Tumblr under another alias these days. Back in 2013 I had a nasty run in with a stalker, so I took a step back from GSB.
As soon as I read that I had to stop, because the mere fact that happened gave me a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. So yeah, lack of posting is ENTIRELY justified then. 'Nuff said.
The only reason I didn't shut down GSB entirely was because I was still working with Miro and A3D, and it would have been foolish to try and associate my voice with another name. At this point it's all washed over and I can safely go back to blogging on GSB, but the tumblr interface has really grown on me. I've thought about porting all of GSB to tumblr, but that's a lot of effort I haven't wanted to put in yet. Especially given Tumblr is always a CEO's whim away from having it's adult content purged.
In which case, no need to switch channels purely on my account. The only reason I know about GSB at all is because it got mentioned over here a couple of times and I enjoyed the frivolity of your commentary over there, which was something of a fun read (more for the geek than the sex, really, although both play their parts).
Stick with what makes you happy and you're comfy with.
Well I know that this is complete BS because you did just fine with the expressions in G4E in the first place.
I guess you know the rig better than I do :P
I didn't say it wasn't doable, I said I chose not to in this case
Then in that case, I'm going to call you on Cutting Corners … or at the very least feel justified in saying that what you've shown us had better be incomplete as opposed to final.
I just dont see how like 5 minutes to make a tiny post isn't possible on a weekly basis. Mean honestly you can do that while taking a poop
Okay, I'm going to have to White Knight™ for both Marie and miro here. There is no such thing as 5 minutes for a tiny post here once per week. I can assure you from personal experience that even when perusing the forums daily, I can easily spend more than 5 minutes just reading posts, never mind replying to them. Heck, even THIS short reply is taking me longer than 5 minutes to do between reading and composing.
The alternative is to come in, not read anything … and then post something in 5 minutes that is completely disconnected from any conversation or concerns that have been expressed. The words "out of touch" only begin to describe what kind of a self-inflicted wound that will result in over time when the behavior gets repeated.
I know that for me, I need to clear a block of time of at least 15 minutes just to read and possibly post something, and as you've seen on multiple occasions I can write lengthy posts that sometimes take over an hour to complete the composition and proofing. Point being that it's SAFER to assume you're going to be reading and posting in a forum for a long time, that way if you don't you've got spare time on your hands you can do something with instead of being cramped for time because you're too busy and can't spare any (right now, or ever, or…).
Not to put you on the spot femalefutafan, but thinking that a "5 minute posting standard" is in any way reasonable (let alone acceptable) is sheer folly borne out of hyperbole.
Change of subject ...
Marie, I don't want you or miro to feel like I'm saying you haven't been working hard or enough (or whatever). That's not the direction that my critical response to the latest animation is pointing towards. Instead, my "complaints" are more in the direction of "if you'd done THIS rather than THAT" where I feel that different choices would have produced a superior end product. The closest I feel comfortable getting towards accusing miro of not spending enough time on his art is pointing out the inevitable zero sum game of administering the website and Affect3D store reducing the time he has to work on his art.
I will however tweak your nose Marie about the fact that there hasn't been an update to your Geeky Sex Blog since … August ... and the one before that was ... January ... so I'm thinking you're about "due" over there to say something witty ...
this is a fun piece, don't have enough time to apply the same amount of polish as release animations, so yes, it's a wip/ not fully developed, considering that, I think you over-analyzed this one
Hey, I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
"atrocious lighting" … hold the phone for just a second, I love that lighting, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one... yes I played around with lights sets too much, but that's what experimental pieces are for, yes??
As I said, there are very much superior combinations of lighting and camera positions you could have used. How can I assert this?
It’s easy to kill a scene
This might seem like an obvious point to make, but it’s worth emphasizing: build your scene around your lighting ability. It shouldn’t be the other way around. Use complicated scenes to practice and master your skills, but for actual productions that you intend to put out there make sure you create something that is presentable. It is much more preferable to create a simple thing that looks good than a complicated thing that looks bad. I make this point because I’ve fallen into this trap myself.
I hate to say it miro, but you need to spend some time with TheDude learning how to do lighting (properly).
I do agree a slower tempo would have been more suitable, but every change costs hours of time, so I have to pick may battles, I deemed other things to be more important
miro … you're talking about what amounts to a free pass (or if you prefer, a "mulligan") on a first impression. I understand quite well that slowing the tempo to x0.6 would have very nearly DOUBLED the amount of render time needed for the scene. My contention is that the render time isn't the point. This is one of those "if it takes twice as long to get it RIGHT then do it RIGHT and take twice as long getting there, rather than doing it WRONG and finishing early/on schedule" kinds of things. Why do I say that? Because now we're stuck with an animation where the artist cut corners rather than playing the animation in a way that best features what is happening ... and you don't get a second chance to make a good first impression.
Or to think of it another way ... if it takes another week to render a GOOD scene that works, as opposed to an "okay" scene that has obvious problems ... which is the better choice? For the artist, there is the temptation to finish faster, so as to "ship it" and be done with it already, but for the audience/viewer, the preference is always going to be with the higher quality product. The reason for that is that if the product is going to be something that we're supposed to treasure for YEARS to come (and cum and cum and cum), then doing what is better/best for the scene needs to take precedence over how long it is going to take to finish rendering.
The problem is that now that you've rendered the scene at too high a tempo speed, the time spent rendering that is "sunk" and can't be recovered. However, if you'd given yourself a bit longer, went with a slower tempo and released by (say…) New Year's instead of Christmas, I daresay you'd have received less negative criticism and a happier response to your efforts.
Just for the sake of humoring me ... if you changed nothing other than the tempo of the animation to being x0.6 of what you're showing us here, how long would that take to render in days for the whole thing? A week? Two weeks? Three?
The point I'm trying to make here is that the increase in quality of production is well worth the loss of time it will take to produce in the first place. Why? Because the higher quality product will withstand "the test of time" after release so much better than the lower quality product will.
I do like your analysis in general though
Thank you for that. I know I was being critical, but my efforts are directed towards improving what you're doing than in tearing you down and jumping on the bits.
proper expressions take a lot of time for me
You need to talk to TheDude about that.
so given a toss-up between body motion and expression variation, I go for bodies connecting almost every time
Don't get me (or femalefutafan) wrong, the whole Poles In Holes thing is definitely your strong suit (especially THIS pole in THESE holes!). The problem is when you let that become the sum total entirety of what you're doing. That's because ANYBODY can do Poles In Holes all day long (and many of them do!) but there's more to a scene that makes it sexy, let alone sensual and seductive, than just sticking a Pole In A Hole and having done with it. If you want it to be alluring and … inviting ... you need more than just bodies being mashed together.
plus as I've mentioned in the past I don't think the expressions with this rig are the strong point
Well I know that this is complete BS because you did just fine with the expressions in G4E in the first place.
At the risk of repeating myself, you need to talk to TheDude.
I understand it's unsatisfying but a somewhat accurate reason, but the extra work means we'll eventually be able to deliver quality animation more often
Given your above complaints, I can only hope this means that you're upgrading the rig you're using for Sayako and Tara so as to be able to exert finer control over their facial expressions with greater proficiency.
another quickie render from the latest scene, I actually love how the back light accentuates Tara's ass
And here's a perfect example of the kind of thing I'm talking about with respect to how you could be doing a better job of lighting this particular scene.
First thing I'd want to do is somehow find a way to introduce a Bounce Board into the mix so as to reflectively, rather than directly, illuminate the near side of Tara so her entire body isn't in shadow anymore.
Basically you'd set up the reflecting surface down low (couch height and lower) below the camera so as to "bounce" the light up and onto Sayako's and Tara's bodies from below so as to maintain that beautiful stark contrast of light and shadow playing across Tara's butt cheeks above her. You also wouldn't have the near side of the couch completely lost in shadows.
You'd have to ask TheDude if there's a lighting option to do that in the engine you're using, but I know that use of a Bounce Board is standard practice when dealing with live action filming, particularly on location when you're primarily dealing with direct sunlight, which can cast some pretty harsh shadows depending on the camera angle (and so on and so forth).
IBT basically summed it up, (though im not as critical on animations)
My "complaint" against the animation, such as it is, mainly boils down to an objection of the tempo of thrusting (it's too fast, hence why I prefer either x0.6 or x0.8 speed) and a preference for a different "bias" in the penetration itself (cock IN Tara rather than cock OUT of Tara).
but the face expressions um yeah those need some help.
Actually lighting them "properly" for a good view from the camera would help, but their faces are going to need more than just that. As is, you could very nearly put paper bags over both their heads and not lose anything … which is disappointing.
one thing i will say is the, well ass jiggle when Sayako and Tara's bodies hit was real good.
Agreed. I just wish we'd had better visibility on that while it was happening.
still lost on how its getting on to 3 months and in the post you mention that you didnt get the time needed to polish
like wut –---_______----- how can that even be
Think Miro for the times you cant animate so 80% of the time it seems, why not just get someone else that can do some if not most of the work for you and then you're able to finish of the rest or do some changes, OR just for the final rendering let someone do that.
I think the moral of the story is that miro can be EITHER a site administrator OR a 3DX artist … but there really isn't time to be both. Why do I say this? Because other artists have released multiple products in the Affect3D store while miro has been working on this 1 minute animation, which is really nothing more than two loops strung together with a transition in between them … and even then, the only real difference between the two loops is the tempo of penetration, so it's really more like one loop at x1.0 and then run a little faster.
I'm of the opinion that the past year has demonstrated that miro needs someone else to take over the "business" side of Affect3D so that miro can devote a larger amount of time/resources to being an artist. Because Time Is Finite ... while the demands on your time are approaching infinite. Time to start deciding what is more important ... maintaining the business/site or being a creative artist.
0:11 - Animation loop starts.
0:17 - Focus clears so we can see Sayako and Tara from a distance. Tara and Sayako are backlit, but the lighting moves VERY FAST. Can't see Sayako's eyes at all. Tara's eyes are hidden in shadow and too small to read.
0:23 - Camera position change. Tara and Sayako are still backlit. Can't see either of their faces from this camera angle. Can discern the penetration of Tara's anus, but only with difficulty due to "peek a boo" obscurements.
0:38 - Camera position change. Tara and Sayako are still backlit. Sayako's face is visible but the angle to her face is awful for being able to "read" her expression. Same with Tara. The eyes of neither are visible in this shot. Penetration by Sayako is easier to see without Tara's leg getting in the way intermittently, but lighting of the region of penetration is awful as everything there is in shadow between Tara's thighs/cheeks. Have to take your word for it that this is anal and not vaginal.
The kinematics are improved over previous iterations. It doesn't look like Sayako is sliding Tara across the arm of the couch anymore in a way that defied friction. Instead, it looks like Tara is using her right arm to PULL herself back onto Sayako's cock, which is much more believable.
0:45 - Tara and Sayako are finally front lit instead of back lit. Sayako's facial expression can finally be seen, but she's got her eyes closed and is "totally in the moment" of fucking her cock into Tara's (presumably) asshole. Tara's facial expression can also finally be seen somewhat clearly and she's got both her mouth and her eyes open, and she's looking towards the camera. Tara's facial expression is just a bit too … static ... here, since her eyelids never flutter and her jaw doesn't move relative to the rest of her face. Without sound, just looking at Tara's face, it's difficult to believe she's even breathing, since her mouth and tongue basically don't move while Sayako is slowly thrusting into her.
0:55 - Rapid camera change. Sayako finally gets some emotional play on her face, although thanks to the lighting her eyes are hidden completely in shadow and can't be seen. Tara's mouth finally does something other than just hang open the same way all the time. Although Tara's eyes are visible, thanks to the lighting they can't be "read" so as to easily see which way she's looking (or if they've rolled up due to the intensity of feeling at having her ass filled with all that cock!). The contrast of Sayako's bolero jacket, which practically DRINKS IN LIGHT, and barely letting any light escape from it, so it looks unnaturally dark compared to the bright/whiteness of her perky yet well hung breasts is particularly ... stark.
Sayako pauses for a moment before resuming fucking Tara at a slightly faster pace. Tara's eyes can be seen (sort of, but not well), and Sayako's eyes remain shrouded in shadow and completely unreadable/not visible.
1:03 - Begin fade out. Sayako's face is completely in shadow, except for the very tip of her nose. Tara's facial expression is readable (finally!) but it doesn't look like she's "enjoying" what's being done to her rear end in that final freeze frame shot. If anything, it looks like Tara is "regretting" her decision to let this happen, rather than being aroused by it.
And, once again, you keep the loop cycle speed too fast. Just to check, I downloaded the mp4 so I could play it back at different speeds. The two speeds it looked best at (to me, anyway) were x0.6 and x0.8.
Running at x0.6 makes the audio (and video) a tad choppy on my player, but it slows down the animation to a point where it actually LOOKS ... sensual ... and gives the animation a feeling of shared intimacy that just isn't there at x1.0 speed. This slow speed also makes it look like Sayako is teasing Tara with the slowness of her thrusts, until she speeds up a little at the end, and it also makes it look like Tara's asshole is a lasciviously tight fit to be penetrating into. The slower speed actually heightens the sympathetic connection with the characters on screen, such that when you're watching you start anticipating each thrust and can savor (in your imagination) what it must feel like to both Do That (from Sayako's perspective) and to Receive That (from Tara's perspective), which then gives you that all important "link" between viewer and what's happening on screen that I was so at pains to expound on previously. By going "slow enough" it makes it easier to project yourself into the scene and FEEL what Sayako and Tara are feeling (and doing) to each other.
Running at x0.8 looks better than x1.0 because it gives both Tara's and Sayako's bodies a feeling of weighty solidity that is somewhat lacking at x1.0 speed. The tempo of penetration implies that Tara's asshole is "getting used to being penetrated like this" by Sayako's cock, to the point where she'd have to be really well lubed for something that BIG to slip and slide in and out of her so easily. The difference is that the tempo at x1.0 is pushing credulity (because it's a little too fast), not to mention comfort, while at x0.8 it starts looking more like a "luxurious" ass fucking that both of them are supposed to be enjoying (or at least could be enjoying if their facial expressions ever changed or weren't permanently in shadow or blinded by the lighting).
The choice of lighting positions and camera angles are, to put it mildly, somewhat infuriating … to the point where what I most want to do with this clip is snatch the controls and "fix it" so that both the lighting and the camera angles could be done so much better. The choices made for the lighting and the camera angles are borderline Erotica Malpractice again, and that makes me very sad (not to mention disappointed/angry).
As far as the animation loop itself goes, your choices betray a very curious priority, miro. It's almost as if you're determined to show Sayako's cock OUTSIDE of Tara's ass more than you're committed to showing Sayako's cock buried INSIDE of Tara's ass. Even at 0:55 when you make the change up in fucking tempo, you do it while Sayako's hips are pulled back and the penetration of Tara is as minimal as possible, rather than the other way around, with her hips held as closely into Tara's as possible when penetration is maximal. What this "says" is that the most important thing that Sayako can FEEL here is the ring of Tara's anus sliding up and down the length of her cock … rather than that "being inside Tara's ass" (and staying there) is a tremendous pleasure and something to be savored, both as an act of sexual dominance (which at Sayako's size it's hard NOT to be dominant doing this!) and as an act of hedonistic sensuality (you've never been fucked this deep or this thoroughly before, so enjoy it while you can!).
So watching this loop, I get the curious feeling that Sayako is reluctant to "bury her boner" into Tara's butt and "make her take it" and love every inch of it that's being fed deep into her ass. Instead, the feeling I get watching this animation is more like watching Sayako "rowing standing up" than sitting down, instead of her doing something sensual/sexy with Tara where both of them can FEEL IT and get seriously aroused by it.
Now, if this loop was a "down payment" on a longer cycle of animation (meaning, it's not finished yet and neither are you) then it would be "okay" as a first draft, but with obvious room for improvement(s) … mainly in the area of Lighting and choice of Camera Positions/Angles. As is ... it doesn't even really work (for me) as a decent piece of tease, mainly because there is so much room for improvement of multiple aspects ... everything from tempo of the thrusting to the "priority" of keeping Sayako's cock "in or out" of Tara's ass to the atrocious lighting to the distant/impersonal/poor choice of camera positions that prevent what we're seeing from actually being ... intimate and passionate (let alone arousing).
I'd love to help you with that, but that would require collaborating more closely during the making than an after action report like this can manage after it's "done" (or at least, abandoned).
did manage to render the animation that has been in the works
It seems you've redecorated …
Another one, one elf is getting naughty - just the way we like 'em.
Being naughty is teasing without intent to get to pleasing … otherwise, that's just being nice ...
miro, I know I've gotten on your case (repeatedly) about what I feel is Erotica Malpractice™ in your DLC 1 & 2 efforts, where you chose camera angles where the eyes of your characters simply can't be seen (often because hair or other body parts get in the way/obscure a line of sight to the eyes of your characters).
I was just looking at G4E again, and I think I've found an excellent Test Case to show you what I've been blathering on about.
This loop features Sayako self sucking while (struggling to) look towards the camera. The eye contact you get from this (and the visibility to Sayako's eyes in Affect3D_G4EE17P01A01.swf and Affect3D_G4EE17P01A03.swf) is an extremely important component of what you're looking at as a viewer.
As a demonstration of just HOW important that eye contact is, go ahead and put a Big Black Box Of Redaction onto Sayako's head in Affect3D_G4EE17P01A02.swf so that you CAN'T see her eyes anymore (basically anything higher than her lips gets obscured) … and notice the difference in the emotional impact and intensity, even though literally nothing else is changed about the loop.
With Sayako's eyes visible (and thus "in play") in the loop, the emotional impact and "connection" with the character is much more profound. As viewers, we sympathetically empathize (fantasize?) with her much more easily/clearly/completely because we can look into her eyes and see (and feel!) the effects of what she's doing on her. With her eyes visible, what's happening in the animation isn't JUST a physical act, but also a deeply emotional/spiritual/meaningful one as well. We can FEEL her want/hunger/cock lust, not just watch it being demonstrated in front of a camera.
Take away visibility of Sayako's eyes and … it becomes substantially about a collection of moving body parts. Without her eyes, what we're looking at becomes somewhat "disembodied" and almost unconnected to Sayako, even though it's obviously Sayako's body doing everything we're seeing. What's happening on screen is still blatantly sexual … but it's no longer SEXY. I submit to you that the reason for that is that if you can't "read" Sayako's facial expression(s), because the camera avoids "looking at her" in a way that facilitates the … intimacy ... of seeing how what she's doing AFFECTS HER, then you are failing to capture the Spirit and Meaning of what is happening with (and to) her.
I don't know if it's the same for Marie or not, but for me easily over half of the appeal of G4E is the fantasy notion that Tara and Sayako are real people (even if they're obviously 3DX creations). That means wanting to establish a link/bond/connection to them as people in ways that not only make them Sexy but also keep them being Sexy, rather than just doing "sex stuff" without any emotional impact. It is therefore extremely arousing for me to be able to SEE the arousal that Tara and Sayako are "feeling" not only in their actions (and movements) but also in their facial expressions … and make no mistake, it is that sense that Tara and Sayako are aroused by what they are doing, as PEOPLE, rather than a mere Urgency Of Movement(s), which holds the most powerful appeal for me when I watch anything G4E related.
And why should that be so? Because I'm the type of person who feeds on (and reinforces) the arousal levels of my partner(s), so as to create a feedback loop of increasing arousal between us. Cut that feedback loop off or interfere with it and … let's just say that things don't work out quite so well. In your work, miro, the difference between those two states depends on whether or not I can see the eyes of the character being portrayed in the scene(s). If I can't see (and read) the facial expressions of the character(s), then the opportunity for that kind of virtuous feedback loop of arousal is lost. When I watch anything G4E related, I want to feel that "connection" to Tara and Sayako, and when it isn't there, I feel disappointed and let down, because I can't feel that "link" to either them or what they're doing on screen.
Now, don't get me wrong, we don't need to have camera angles that show Tara and Sayako's eyes and facial expressions in every single shot, since that would be going overboard in the other direction, but in DLC 1 & 2 the ability to see (and read!) their facial expressions were so intermittent that even when rewatching them I find myself skipping over a large part of what's available, simply because the camera angles chosen DENY me the connection to how they FEEL about doing what they're doing. Indeed, the (in my opinion) poor choice of camera angles is so consistent that I start wanting to wrest control of the camera away and move it to a place where I can SEE what it is that I'm wanting to see … and that desire is extremely distracting (in a way that is counterproductive to being aroused by what's happening).
I know you don't like doing shots where Tara's and Sayako's expressions can be seen, and that they're difficult to get right in animation, but for some of us those expressions are almost (almost) more important than anything else you could be showing us ... including your signature Poles In Holes style of action.
Anyway, hope this helps you in some form or fashion.
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