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  • Hmm, Miro you've got an interesting brainstorm beginning here. I think there is room for more diversity within the 3DX movie realm. Whether game, independent, or completely original. I am curious to see what's possible.


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    @'matthacker':

    Let's see if i get this right. The main point of your argument is that with 3dx, people are more inclined to produce content (be it videos or games) that are more story driven than what's typically seen now. The second point is that the porn (or the mainstream entertainment) industry will be more open to doing cross media licensing (which is the topic of this thread)

    Getting back to my original point re cross media deals, the reason that ought to happen sometime in the future (could be decades yet) is that 3dx is a leading form of entertainment, drawing from sexual drive, which is at least equal if not superior to any other form of entertainment at least where private entertainment is concerned. The reason for that is the orgasm, built into every human by nature, which I think you'll agree is an amazing experience :D The orgasm is on our side :D

    @'matthacker':

    For the first point. If the porn industry steered away from stories (because of logistics restrictions and lack of interest), why would 3dx be the same? Currently, most 3dx series I've seen don't even have a story. You're saying that somewhere along the line that will change because you could render faster?

    For the second, my argument against the porn industry doing cross media licensing (and also producing 3dx titles) are cost, ease of production and last, but not least, lack of market interest (compared to real life porn, both mainstream, fetish and amateur).

    what you are doing is looking at the present and indeed the current situation is bleak as you've rightly pointed out, but isn't that exactly where opportunities arise? filling the gaps?

    re point one, no the reason why I think porn will shift to story is not because of speed, it's because porn actors can't act, to convey a story you must have believable characters first and foremost
    good actors today must chose between porn and main stream, you can't do both for obvious reasons, guess which one they will chose :D but with 3dx you no longer need physical actors, the acting is only limited by the artist's imagination plus the artist doesn't have to put his/ her body on the line, haha :D

    re point two, yes the porn industry is sitting pretty atm, why change your game plan if everything's working out as is, no I think the move to 3dx as a one arm of porn has to come from 3dx artists, who need to convince the porn industry, not the other way around
    also the interest will come as the quality increases, with today's offering you have a small but dedicated crowd, but with animation, full voice and new gaming experiences of tomorrow, you'll get the attention of a much broader audience, I'm thinking what Pixar did for the movie industry and gaming for the entertainment industry in general or vs sports

    @'matthacker':

    There are those Virtual Plaything 'interactive' games, which is more gimmicky than gameplay. So, it's been done before (sex games with live action porn stars). It's a niche product for a niche market that never sold well (for a plethora of reasons).

    What do you mean by properly? In my mind, properly means actual interactive gameplay. From what I've seen so far, both western and japanese sex games are seriously lacking in that department. Gameplay mechanics - awful. Stories - even more ludicrous than real life porn. And that's not even taking into account Japanese hentai sensibilities.

    I have seen good games with sex scenes (Mafia, Indigo Prophecy, Mass Effect), but I've never seen a good sex game, let alone one with a good story.

    yes I agree with the current set of games nothing will change and 3dx would gain no credibility, what needs to happen is sex games on par with Mass Effect, that can not happen over night, but a gradual increase in quality over time is possible!



  • Let's see if i get this right. The main point of your argument is that with 3dx, people are more inclined to produce content (be it videos or games) that are more story driven than what's typically seen now. The second point is that the porn (or the mainstream entertainment) industry will be more open to doing cross media licensing (which is the topic of this thread)

    For the first point. If the porn industry steered away from stories (because of logistics restrictions and lack of interest), why would 3dx be the same? Currently, most 3dx series I've seen don't even have a story. You're saying that somewhere along the line that will change because you could render faster?

    For the second, my argument against the porn industry doing cross media licensing (and also producing 3dx titles) are cost, ease of production and last, but not least, lack of market interest (compared to real life porn, both mainstream, fetish and amateur).

    @'miro':

    Well games will be the main domain of 3dx and that's something that's almost impossible to do properly with regular porn.

    There are those Virtual Plaything 'interactive' games, which is more gimmicky than gameplay. So, it's been done before (sex games with live action porn stars). It's a niche product for a niche market that never sold well (for a plethora of reasons).

    What do you mean by properly? In my mind, properly means actual interactive gameplay. From what I've seen so far, both western and japanese sex games are seriously lacking in that department. Gameplay mechanics - awful. Stories - even more ludicrous than real life porn. And that's not even taking into account Japanese hentai sensibilities.

    I have seen good games with sex scenes (Mafia, Indigo Prophecy, Mass Effect), but I've never seen a good sex game, let alone one with a good story.


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    @'matthacker':

    Don't know about games, but those elements traditionally exists in those so called feature porn movies. A far better example of those are old porn movies from the Golden Age of Porn (70s-80s). Although intriguing, in my opinion it distracts the porn industry too much from what the general porn audience wants - sex. The industry have wisely not take those things seriously now, instead producing parody porn flicks. At least, those are mildly entertaining. I think that's as close as cross media from the mainstream as you can get with porn.

    So, if a porn flick actually don't contain such elements, what makes you think the porn studios is interested in a full blow characterization of their characters (or actress/actors)? Some of the cross media promo I've seen happen with porn are several comic books and those didn't prove too successful. There's that Virtual Jenna thing, but I think that's the exception and not the rule.

    Well games will be the main domain of 3dx and that's something that's almost impossible to do properly with regular porn.

    In terms of movies I still see tremendous potential as well. First of all I agree with you the story must never detract from the actual sex, having said that the story will be a major instrument in getting the viewer involved with the characters and scene if it only takes a small part of the whole. As odd as it may sound porn actresses of today most of the time can't act, but 3dx chars could do a much better job cause the artist becomes the director, so it's just the artists that needs to have enough talent :D



  • @'miro':

    …more than just good old fashioned humping, meaning story, better character acting, more fantasy, imaginative work, amazing animation potential and interaction through games! ... all these things are sorely missing from porn today, so I think there's in fact a huge opportunity
    sort of like what pixar did for movies

    Don't know about games, but those elements traditionally exists in those so called feature porn movies. A far better example of those are old porn movies from the Golden Age of Porn (70s-80s). Although intriguing, in my opinion it distracts the porn industry too much from what the general porn audience wants - sex. The industry have wisely not take those things seriously now, instead producing parody porn flicks. At least, those are mildly entertaining. I think that's as close as cross media from the mainstream as you can get with porn.

    So, if a porn flick actually don't contain such elements, what makes you think the porn studios is interested in a full blow characterization of their characters (or actress/actors)? Some of the cross media promo I've seen happen with porn are several comic books and those didn't prove too successful. There's that Virtual Jenna thing, but I think that's the exception and not the rule.


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    @'matthacker':

    I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

    I agree :D

    @'matthacker':

    First and foremost, for porn studios, this is a business. Like any business, there's cost and revenue to consider. Right now the market is just not financially viable for 3dx (and I don't think it will ever be).

    how come? if porn can make it as a business, why not 3dx?

    @'matthacker':

    Cost - that kinda depends on the quality you want. Cel shaded is an option, but then it will have to compete with titles from the hentai genre. Photo realistic? It will be very expensive to do a 30 minute clip, let alone a full length feature. And that's just rendering. What about the other stuff? You need to have very good animators or access to motion capture library/equipment. Don't forget voice talents, so you'll need to hire them. Once done, it will still need to go to post production like any other feature. The budget will likely be something close to a B movie budget, which is a tough sell for those studios. They can easily make a lot of gonzo clips for a fraction of the cost in less time.

    It's actually interesting to see someone refer to 3dx as being indie or amateur. Right now, amateur porn is approaching critical mass because the barriers of entry are so low. 3dx will not catch up for a very long time. Until technology allows us to render what we want to see (quality wise) at 1080p/30 fps, 3dx will always be a very small niche of porn and as such is not financially viable for studios.

    yeah the time it takes is the main negative for sure, but 3dx does have one huge advantage which is opening up porn to more than just good old fashioned humping, meaning story, better character acting, more fantasy, imaginative work, amazing animation potential and interaction through games! … all these things are sorely missing from porn today, so I think there's in fact a huge opportunity
    sort of like what pixar did for movies



  • @'Nephanor':

    Paris Hilton's legal people contacted you? Oh now THAT is hilarious. Considering what a failure of her life, I am surprised she would even notice. Who knows, if she has to keep paying lawyers to keep her name 'clean' she may run out of money in a year or two.

    She probably didn't notice. Most celebs have a legal team that does everything to protect their image, meaning scrolling through a bunch of porn sites with a tissue box in hand, finding anything that would be considered demeaning to their image.

    Of course, with Paris Hilton, it's not that bad to ruin her image, especially when she's already good at doing it.



  • @'Jimjim':

    and then big companies come along and swamp out people like us by pumping out studio quality 3dx at fast rates

    I dream of this day

    @'Nephanor':

    Paris Hilton's legal people contacted you? Oh now THAT is hilarious. Considering what a failure of her life, I am surprised she would even notice. Who knows, if she has to keep paying lawyers to keep her name 'clean' she may run out of money in a year or two.

    I agree totally hilarious

    "our client, a well known cock-sucking bimbo, objects to your portrayal of her as a cock-sucking bimbo" :D

    I agree with the other points about 3dx, speed of production, cost, mainstream unawareness etc, IMO those are the biggest barriers. But I would add that less japan-centric themes and style would help too.

    For now we'll all have to be content with the only form of crossover being the 3DX celebrity clones



  • I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

    First and foremost, for porn studios, this is a business. Like any business, there's cost and revenue to consider. Right now the market is just not financially viable for 3dx (and I don't think it will ever be).

    Let's talk about revenue - where are they going to get it from? DVDs, VODs? I doubt they can sell it to cable companies. Say they're able to convince a retailer to carry a title. Suddenly, it will have to compete with live action titles catering to the same genre/niche. Give it a couple of weeks and the novelty value has dried up - it's just another porn title. And just like any other porn titles, some 'creative' user will start sharing them on hosting sites and bittorrent and your sales drop even more.

    Cost - that kinda depends on the quality you want. Cel shaded is an option, but then it will have to compete with titles from the hentai genre. Photo realistic? It will be very expensive to do a 30 minute clip, let alone a full length feature. And that's just rendering. What about the other stuff? You need to have very good animators or access to motion capture library/equipment. Don't forget voice talents, so you'll need to hire them. Once done, it will still need to go to post production like any other feature. The budget will likely be something close to a B movie budget, which is a tough sell for those studios. They can easily make a lot of gonzo clips for a fraction of the cost in less time.

    It's actually interesting to see someone refer to 3dx as being indie or amateur. Right now, amateur porn is approaching critical mass because the barriers of entry are so low. 3dx will not catch up for a very long time. Until technology allows us to render what we want to see (quality wise) at 1080p/30 fps, 3dx will always be a very small niche of porn and as such is not financially viable for studios.


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    yes those big movie companies doing porn basically :) they'd license it out to some third party company, but the point is that it would happen with their blessings

    yes I think in the long term porn will bounce back and will, despite a lot of screaming and kicking from certain groups become main stream, because common sense will prevail eventually if history is anything to go by… but anyway that's another story :D

    yes a few people are wondering whether porn will have the same appeal when suddenly it is acceptable and everyone's talking about openly... I think yes, things will definitely change, it won't be nearly as mysterious and forbidden as it used to be, but you can't have it both ways, so instead we'll have the freedom and all the main stream facilities, better tools, better production values, etc, etc... the end result is better 3dx and that's nothing to complain about :D it gives us an opportunity to explore 3dx much deeper and I'd rather 3dx is one of the innovators not as it stands now we kinda get the technology scraps available to anyone

    the great thing is that 3dx is an indie movement now and I don't think we'll forget that when it becomes main stream, that is the trend in any case, today through technology and the internet individuals have far more reach and opportunities then they've ever had before and there are always interesting fringe areas too small for corporations to deal with



  • I think Miro is talking about the same big companies who made the films making a 3dx spinoff as part of the marketing scheme/merchandise. Not just anyone making a parody.



  • Paris Hilton's legal people contacted you? Oh now THAT is hilarious. Considering what a failure of her life, I am surprised she would even notice. Who knows, if she has to keep paying lawyers to keep her name 'clean' she may run out of money in a year or two.

    Good advice though.

    As for porn crossovers…there are plenty already. Pretty much every popular superhero movie of recent years has one.



  • Hey everyone,

    Just had to put my two cents into this thread as I've butted heads more than a few times with 'parodies' in the past.

    There is a market for it (3dx versions of mainstream movies, etc.) but it's a very fine line; much finer than it is with porn movies. The legal-beagels know the power of the 3d medium and how easy it would be to make very realistic looking fakes of known celebrities, etc. I found that out with my own Paris Hilton parody toon that got me a nice bunch of letters and a meeting with her legal people.

    After all of the dancing in the grey areas of this that I've done here is the simple rules of a parody that you 'can' get away with:

    -Change the name of the main character! That way you can only say it's a close representation of said celebrity etc. and it'll hold up in a court.

    -Make one single change to any 3dx parody character; be it eye color hair color, etc. For the same reason you do rule #1; plausible deniability.

    I know it sounds like a bunch of CYA action (cover your ass); but like Gramma told me as a little perv, "A ounce of prevention save you a pound of trouble later!"



  • As time goes by things like porn become more and more socially acceptable. Just like how it's now socially acceptable for woman to wear revealing/skimpy shorts and skirts in public where as 60 or so years ago that was not the case. Society just takes time to get used to things. The real question is does it feel as good to make 3dx if everyone accepts it as "normal" and then big companies come along and swamp out people like us by pumping out studio quality 3dx at fast rates that people who currently make money off of can't really compete with. Not that studio quality 3dx is a bad thing but it means a big change in the indie side of 3dx.

    Although on the other side of that argument I guess we'd become the sort of "armature porn" equivalent of 3dx which isn't always a bad thing.


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