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  • Again, in Poser, it is not the software but the settings that people are using. They are simply not setting the Gravity correctly. Putting hair on things is no real problem. It is very easy to do.

    Once it is done, though, it now comes down to settings. No one, as a hobby, really seems to want to sit down and map all this out in a real world sense. You can go by the manual, but it really only tells you HOW it works, not the artistic part of WHAT will work.



  • These new comments about the hair moving like its in space or underwater tie in with the post I was about to make.

    I found a movie from 3rd-art.com on my HDD, of the brunette character Kelly stripping out of a blue jumpsuit, the hair looks and moves great, (apart from lots of clipping) but it moved in the exact slow motion way you are all talking about.

    That video is years old, hard to believe the software hasnt gotten better since then.



  • That dynamic hair looks like it's underwater or something. Not enough inertia and gravity.



  • Well, in all fairness to Poser, no one has ever really tried to make Dynamic Hair work. Granted, people have made some excellent fur pieces. http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/Common/download.aspx?filename=ThumA_2012-+3-+9_+2h+5m12s_1_lvl.jpg&loc=Forum/2012/3/10/ There is a gravity dial, but I just think that the documentation for making that room work correctly is woefully inefficient.

    Now, this Garibaldi system that you mentioned, that DOES look really good!


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    The reason I've never used Poser's dynamic hair is because I've never seen results better than the standard mesh hair. I also dislike the animation, maybe it's just the setup but to me it always looks like there's not enough gravity with the hair flowing too slowly, like it's out in space or something.

    The only proper way of doing this I think is with programs like 3DS Max or Maya currently. I think Poser is a solid 3D tool for certain things, but hair is not one of them, from what I've seen so far.

    Garibaldi looks interesting for DAZ though, is there something like this for Poser?



  • Yeah, it is completely dynamic. It is just as verbose as the Cloth Room. This is a pretty good simple dynamic setup I found. Shows a little of what is possible. I am sure, with more setup, the video could have been better.

    http://youtu.be/po5EF1PwtXs



  • @'jbtrimar':

    I actually use the Poser hair room from time to time, but only when I think it will help. Here I used it on the fetlocks as I did not think the material was cutting it.

    Nice. How does it react in an animation? Does it move or sway with gravity or inertia? Can you adjust it so that it does? These two factors would be key for me using it.



  • I actually use the Poser hair room from time to time, but only when I think it will help. Here I used it on the fetlocks as I did not think the material was cutting it.



  • Poser has had a hair room for years, although few people actually use it, myself included. I suppose I should try it out more, though like the cloth room, it seems difficult to get consistent results. There's also the time issue. Why spend time in setup and rendering hair when I have a transmapped hair piece ready to go?



  • Hair is one area where i haven't progressed as far as other areas. I find you have to really play around with them to get them looking remotely decent and its one area i plan to spend a lot more time to get them looking better.

    I got a few recently and im having a hard time making them look half as good as their previews , to a point where i messaged creators to ask why it does this and that! In one case they couldn't understand why it wont look like previews after i told them how i rendered setup ..etc i was told to switch off the Gamma to see if it made a difference , but that only puts the whole image out and doesn't do a thing for hair.

    *** Hzr you make a good point about people not striving to get very good at it! i know i have come a long way in the past 12 months and keep picking up things along the way , mostly small things but they all add to improvements. Even Daz and Poser Programs can give you good results if you really know how to use those programs to their full potential.
    If this time next year i have improved as much as i have in the past year , i should be doing ok and hopefully have hair looking how i want as well.



  • Regular props are cumbersome to work with but the good thing about them is that they are readymade and decent looking in their default pose. Theres some very good ones but also tons of crap. When youre not going for very long and spectacular hair styles then you should really be fine. Most shorter hairstyles work very well and you dont really have to mess with alot of posing for them.

    Garibaldi and LAMH are promising but they are more of a first dip into a better future I think. While they will work great for fur and some wild hair, I havent yet seen anything that is looking great in terms of real hairstyles. You know, hairstyles that look like something you would see in reality, other than those basic looking male short hair looks that are available for it now. I messed a bit in Garibaldi and it was decent to work with but still a bit cumbersome and if youre not really into it, I dont think you will get something good out of it. I am not a hair stylist, I just want to have a hair prop that I can use effectively and manipulate in a decent way FFS! :) I will keep a very interested eye on LAMH though and see how well it does and what people come up with in terms of presets etc.

    As to why theres not alot of good looking hair in 3dx and most other 3d aswell so far… It just isnt at the point yet where it is efficient to work with and include into your workflow. The time it takes to create something that looks spectacular is just too much to make it worthwile, yet. You also got to take into account that most 3dx artists want to create series of images and not just a few amazing shots which take a few days to make for each. Well, some maybe do, but not the majority. And then there are also a big chunk of 3dx artists who are really not that good, and probably just doing it because its easy to load some props and pose the figures, then just render it with basic settings and be done with it. Those guys are happy when things go quickly and just work, they dont use GI nor AO, no light tricks and they surely dont want to mess around with a detail such as hair when that adds a few minutes render time. Please dont take this as me bashing people, but its just a fact that the majority of people who picked up daz and poser are hobbyists who dont strive to be very good at it.



  • Well, after seeing this, maybe it's not so far away.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMEw-X6JLkY



  • Perfect hair in 3D is difficult. It requires helluva a lot of trial and error. And unless you make dozens, if not hundreds, of computers for rendering, you're gonna be sitting at your desk for a while.

    The technology is out there for the hobbyist, but the time isn't. If it was easier to create realistic hair, then people would go for it. For now, a hair model gets the job done.



  • Yeah what i was going to say has been said all ready. The render software would take too long to render each individual hair so it's not worth it I guess in terms or render times. Plus modelling unique high polly hairs strand by strand is much more complex so less vendors would be willing to adopt that new way. Although their are some that do like the already mentioned "look at my hair" and things like "Actual hair" which use multilayering to give a more realistic feel but still probably wouldn't produce the silky motion you see in those commercial.

    But I guess within the next 10 or so years this will become the norm for hair models as with everything computer related it all evolves quite quickly.



  • The problem is, this kind of hair is practically rendered one stand at a time, and no one wants to write up the code to do that in "hobby" programs like Daz or Poser.


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    Realistic looking hair is already possible, take a look at brave for example

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEHWDA_6e3M

    It's hard to pull off with the standard tools like Poser/ Daz though.

    You'd have to go high end for this and it would be lower on the priority list vs the said ass and titties :D

    But I agree, I do want to see realistic flowing hair in 3DX as well, hopefully sooner than later.



  • For me, there's two reasons.

    Number one, 3Delight takes way too much time to render transparent textures, which is the default way of making hair. There's some workardound for that, but you lose some quality (no occlusion).

    Second, most hair, be it smart propped or conforming don't really behave like real hair. That's why some artist still prefer painting them in postwork rather than use 3D hair.

    Dynamic hair plugins like Optitex, Garibaldi and Look at My Hair for DS are good, but they don't really tackle the first problem. That's why I prefer short hair models. I do have some ideas I want to try out in a hair model, so maybe when I have the time I'll make my own.

    Poser and Carrara have dynamic hair capabilities, but I don't know why so few artist use it. That also applies to artist using more high end apps (3dxmax, cinema4D etc).

    To answer your question, it can be done today, fully in 3d, but it will take a whole lot of work in materials and resources to pull it off.


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