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  • Thanks for the update erogenesis. I'm gonna be abusing that ass for a while. :D

    @'hzr':

    I wont complain about the anus at all. This is superior to what we have seen before, except for the images that miro provided from his own prop perhaps. But no idea how far he has come with it. Any status update there? :)

    There's still some tweaks left he's currently doing. TA3 is really the main thing he wants to get out before anything else, so the gens are pretty much second (or third) priority at this time.



  • I wont complain about the anus at all. This is superior to what we have seen before, except for the images that miro provided from his own prop perhaps. But no idea how far he has come with it. Any status update there? :)



  • @'hzr':

    Looks nice so far, of course the massive opening is a bit much, but I do get the point :D

    Hey! Dragons like to ravage women too, and this shows they now can without breaking Vicky! ;)



  • @'hzr':

    Looks nice so far, of course the massive opening is a bit much, but I do get the point :D

    the pussy opening in the render is at 0.6 :D


    @'matthacker':

    ERC is actually pretty easy, with the right tools. I also forgot to mention Figure Setup Tools / Content Creation Toolkit also comes with EXP export (an complete INJ/REM tool).

    fuck! now that's what I wanna hear

    @'matthacker':

    I find this bit to be very informative. I never said that you should copy the joint zones, I only said you should copy the bones setup. That way, not only can your Asymmetric Opening System be applied to the figure, but also to the prop. You can then easily link morphs in the prop to the morphs in the host figure. I'm assuming the prop have morphs that listens to the Asymmetric Opening System as well?

    yes, it is entirely integrated. Maybe for future versions I could copy the hip and thigh bones as skeleton. but the programming would become very abstract because the pussy is two steps away from the actual body. The JCMs have to directly match and that is tough. With this prop it is directly linked to the movements of V4's legs and her mesh opening up, that is very pleasant to program and adjust.


    @'Supro':

    Looking nice so far. I love how much the pussy can stretch out to allow for larger insertion, which is always welcomed. Now I have to ask about her anus. It seems to start off bigger than a normal one. Is there a way to shrink it down without messing with the integrity of the mesh? And the opposite question, how much expansion does it actually have? Can it stretch out similar to the pussy region?

    have you seen this one?

    and yes you can reduce the anus to a tiny hole.

    you'll find that my anal options are not as plentyful as my vaginal options (especially because I'm not very into anal) but with the morphs available you can get quite far.



  • Looking nice so far. I love how much the pussy can stretch out to allow for larger insertion, which is always welcomed. Now I have to ask about her anus. It seems to start off bigger than a normal one. Is there a way to shrink it down without messing with the integrity of the mesh? And the opposite question, how much expansion does it actually have? Can it stretch out similar to the pussy region?



  • @'erogenesis':

    What I meant with "programming" is making the INJ pz2 :D making the figure and the JCMs is a piece of cake, comparatively.

    ERC is actually pretty easy, with the right tools. I also forgot to mention Figure Setup Tools / Content Creation Toolkit also comes with EXP export (an complete INJ/REM tool).

    @'erogenesis':

    The next one is my solution for that:
    It is the Asymmetric Opening System I developed. It listens to the angle of the leg and loads the appropriate morph.

    With this last render, the prop wasn't accessed once. The opening is entirely controlled by PBMs and JCMs.

    Thanks for the renders. The information you provided have been very valuable. I admire the effort and time you put into this, but I think it comes with a very big caveat.

    @'erogenesis':

    The only difference is that conforming props move along with joint zones. In the case of this prop, sure you can do that if you wish, but like I said, its well out of range of any zone. So there's no point really. The only advantage would be that you won't be able to accidentally dislodge it.

    I find this bit to be very informative. I never said that you should copy the joint zones, I only said you should copy the bones setup. That way, not only can your Asymmetric Opening System be applied to the figure, but also to the prop. You can then easily link morphs in the prop to the morphs in the host figure. I'm assuming the prop have morphs that listens to the Asymmetric Opening System as well?



  • @'hzr':

    Looks nice so far, of course the massive opening is a bit much, but I do get the point :D

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…(cries)....hooooo boy! That was HILARIOUS!!

    Uhhh, you did mean that as a pun, right?



  • Looks nice so far, of course the massive opening is a bit much, but I do get the point :D

    The thing that stands out for me the most is that your butt cheeks seem to nicely flatten out and not press against each other desperately, apart from the actual pussy stuff. This is for example just another of those things that DAZ didnt really bother to get right, probably since they are not really interested in making it 3dx conform :)

    I keep my fingers crossed for the guy thats trying to help you out.



  • no, phil is very busy. Its another guy from RDNA, I'll let you know if its ok with him.

    That application looks very useful if anything. I'll definitely look you up if I need help with it! Thanks!

    What I meant with "programming" is making the INJ pz2 :D making the figure and the JCMs is a piece of cake, comparatively.

    Ok I just wanna make sure we're all on the same page. There's a lot of talk about a prop right next to the word anus etc. Let me show you something.

    I am going to show you 7 renders of the system of which 5 renders do not have the prop. The girl in the render is a V4 with two standard FBMs partially applied (Young 0.5, bulk 0.2 + another custom FBM).

    This is the first render:

    This is the full deal. This V4 contains the full Lali System, which is the JCMs, FBMs and the prop. This V4 has two DAZ FBMs partially applied (young and bulk)

    next one:

    This is the same as above but with the prop removed from the scene. I repeat, the prop is no more, and that wil remain so for the next 4 renders.

    You're now looking at the propless Lali System, JCMs, FBMs and pussy preset morphs all in tact.

    Next one:

    This is the same as above but now with the pussy preset deactivated. You're now looking at the crotch DAZ delivered in the original V4. This way you can apply any of your own morphs in that area (like PoseidonTech's pussies), provided they don't mess with the thighs.

    Anal morphs won't work because you can see its quite stretched open.

    Next one:

    this was one of my first attempts as making mesh-based labia (not bad, I forgot I had it)

    The next one represents a simple opening, disregarding the bent thighs.

    You can see its not the best morph, and that is because it was designed to open the pussy with the legs wide, not bent.

    The next one is my solution for that:

    It is the Asymmetric Opening System I developed. It listens to the angle of the leg and loads the appropriate morph.

    In itself its not very amazing but once you load the whole system back in:

    et voila. It looks a whole lot more pleasing.

    With this last render, the prop wasn't accessed once. The opening is entirely controlled by PBMs and JCMs.

    Any questions?

    PS: what I've learnt from my fucking around in pz2 is that conforming items or props are controlled in the same way, as long as the FBM is referenced in the channel of the relevant bodypart (in the case of the prop, itself). So for example the Aiko FBM will work just as flawlessly in a prop as in a conforming body, as long as you put FBMAiko:1 etc or whatever the reference is. The only difference is that conforming props move along with joint zones. In the case of this prop, sure you can do that if you wish, but like I said, its well out of range of any zone. So there's no point really. The only advantage would be that you won't be able to accidentally dislodge it.



  • @'erogenesis':

    no kidding… and that coming from a C# / C++ / JAVA software developer in GeoICT and SQL Server. The online documentation and support is scandalous. Luckily someone knowledgeable in the area offered to take a look so I'm hoping he manages. He's a fucking hero!

    You mean PhilC? I do hope he'll be able to help you.

    @'erogenesis':

    Too late. The morphs were based on a clean V4 and the technique I use cannot calculate for the changes that the magnets make. I could try it with what you say above, but that's just extra work and I am definitely not going back to the drawing board now. I'll definitely check the apps out though. Thanks!

    PS: I am thinking of partnering with someone that can do the programming side of it, then I can just concentrate on the morphs. If that's the case, then I might come up with a Lali Bits V4 specific system (with an update for the people that already have lali's bits, but this is still a very fresh idea).

    Well, if you find time to do that, send a me PM. I can probably change the prop into a conforming one, including the supporting morphs (for the vagina and anus only).

    Property editor is a plugin included in DS3 Advanced Figure Setup Tools, so it doesn't come free (it doesn't come cheap either). It is also included in CCT (Content Creation Toolkit) for DS4 and up (which is still free at the moment). I suggest grabbing one, even if you don't use it for Lali bits, who knows what you can do with it in the future.

    Here's a shot of the tab and how easy it is to create ERC links.

    This is DS3, but it's similar in DS4. Basically you pick the controls on the left pane and the click and drag to the property you want to control in the right pane. Crosstalk morphs are done the same way. I prefer to do it this way since there's last chance of me screwing up the code (via a utility or a text editor).



  • @'matthacker':

    So, how's it going Erogenesis? Haven't heard back from you in a while.

    From your blog, it seems like you're having a really tough time.

    no kidding… and that coming from a C# / C++ / JAVA software developer in GeoICT and SQL Server. The online documentation and support is scandalous. Luckily someone knowledgeable in the area offered to take a look so I'm hoping he manages. He's a fucking hero!

    @'matthacker':

    Saw your post in RDNA, so here's my suggestions.

    1 - loading the prop with INJ
    Don't do this. As I recommend before, make it a conforming prop instead. Include the bones for that area (hip, thighs), so they can control the JCMs in the prop. For a guide, you can use most tutorials on making conforming clothing. You can link JCMs (and other morphs) on V4 to the prop. That way, users will only need to change dials on V4 and not the prop itself.

    The prop is already controlled by JCMs, and it works immediately after loading, much like with conforming clothing. Currently, the main controls for the prop do reside in the V4. For detailled work, then you go to the prop, like a larger clitoris or something.

    Really, the prop is a minor detail, its just a pair of Labia with a clitoris that opens and closes… along with 100 morphs to adjust the shape. You won't get more versatility than this anywhere else. The real deal is the JCMs dealing with her ass.

    Basically, for novice users its fun, but for developers you can construct your own shapes and animate them. You can create for more realistic renders with this system. Off course its not 100% here and there, but just to be very blatant, its a few % ahead of anything else I've seen...

    @'matthacker':

    4 - set deformers and JCMs to zero
    You shouldn't do this. I would recommend to base your morphs with them enabled. This is much like any other fixes like i13's and Xameva's. I don't know the workflow in Poser (and whatever app you use to sculpt the morphs), but with DS3/4 and Morph Loader Pro, it's fairly easy, particularly with reverse deformation (changing the mesh when it is posed).

    Too late. The morphs were based on a clean V4 and the technique I use cannot calculate for the changes that the magnets make. I could try it with what you say above, but that's just extra work and I am definitely not going back to the drawing board now. I'll definitely check the apps out though. Thanks!

    The thing is this: when I started making Lali I never intended to sell her, I just wanted to have a V4 looking good for my comics. I was under the impression that I wasn't doing anything new, and that others had done it many times before. Being in africa I missed out on that neurotic scour the internet know-all-there-is-to-know mentality and didn't know what was (not) out there. I just wanted to tell a story with good art. Turned out I did something that nobody else managed to do. I was totally surprised, because how can you have any erotic art if your fucking vagina looks like a vice? So then people started to ask for it. I thought ok, why not? Haha, had I known what I know now about INJ and that, I probably wouldn't have conceded, or at least planned a christmas release. Also, at the same time I feel a bit apprehensive because I'm hereby loosing a bit of exclusivity. Soon everyone can have Lali's ass.

    But when began making it, the first thing I did was delete DAZ's JCM and deformers because they're a pile of shit anyway. Because now people want the system for themselves, I'm going to have to do roughly the same. I'm trying to get a dial that dials the system in and out and want the original deformers to remain in tact - that way you can still use V4 clothing. I am currently using a working version now and it works fine. For little bends the system still works with V4 clothing, but for large ones you need to dial the system out. So i use my system for the nude and sex scenes.

    So yeah, it was never intended for sale, or compatibility. I just wanted something that looked realistic. But despite that, it still very very compatible. I am going to make it very very clear in the product description that it is an advancement, and not a solution. Its very simple, do you wanna make you V4 move like Lali does, buy Lali's Bits. If you want a completely 100% compatible state-of-the-art V4 unfuck system… start learning CR2 language now cuz I ain't gonna do it! :D

    After the last two weeks, I've kindof decided to take a step back after Lali's Bits. Maybe some updates if I find the software that does it for me. And its not that hard because its just parsing a fuckload of strings in the right place. I was briefly contemplating on writing my own application in C# that covers everything, I made a start, but don't know if I'll finish it. My passion lies in comics and telling stories, not in deciphering haphazard file formats supported by a myriad of ancient applications that do this but not that. But we'll see how things go.

    @'matthacker':

    2 - maintain original V4 morph groups
    3 - rename all my channels to avoid conflict
    For these two (and making ERC links), I recommend using DS3/4 Property Editor.

    thanks!!! does it work stand-alone? or is it a DAZ plugin?

    PS: I am thinking of partnering with someone that can do the programming side of it, then I can just concentrate on the morphs. If that's the case, then I might come up with a Lali Bits V4 specific system (with an update for the people that already have lali's bits, but this is still a very fresh idea).



  • So, how's it going Erogenesis? Haven't heard back from you in a while.

    From your blog, it seems like you're having a really tough time. Saw your post in RDNA, so here's my suggestions.

    1 - loading the prop with INJ
    Don't do this. As I recommend before, make it a conforming prop instead. Include the bones for that area (hip, thighs), so they can control the JCMs in the prop. For a guide, you can use most tutorials on making conforming clothing. You can link JCMs (and other morphs) on V4 to the prop. That way, users will only need to change dials on V4 and not the prop itself.

    4 - set deformers and JCMs to zero
    You shouldn't do this. I would recommend to base your morphs with them enabled. This is much like any other fixes like i13's and Xameva's. I don't know the workflow in Poser (and whatever app you use to sculpt the morphs), but with DS3/4 and Morph Loader Pro, it's fairly easy, particularly with reverse deformation (changing the mesh when it is posed).

    2 - maintain original V4 morph groups
    3 - rename all my channels to avoid conflict
    For these two (and making ERC links), I recommend using DS3/4 Property Editor.



  • @'matthacker':

    Ah, I think you misunderstood me. When I said Step 4, i meant step 4 (not Stephanie 4) in the docs I linked.

    Basically, it explains how you link your FBM morphs to the FBM you want to support, with ERC type 'Multiply' rather than the default 'DeltaAdd'. That way, the FBM morphs will only kick in when the FBM is active. Based on rbtwhiz docs, but the code in your support morph (or dials) should have something like this:

    valueOpDeltaAdd
    Figure
    BODY:1
    FBMAiko4
    deltaMultiply 1

    Of course, I could be wrong, so if you have PhilC on hand, just sent him the link so he cold explain it to you.

    Hmmmmmmmm good tip! I'll try it out. First wait to see what Phil can manage to get done. I can't believe how fucking tough it is to make a bloody INJ :P all it is is just transferring code. Even in the PZ3Editor its hard to isolate the right ones. Wouldn't be surprised if Phil updates the PZ3Editor after this one haha.



  • Ah, I think you misunderstood me. When I said Step 4, i meant step 4 (not Stephanie 4) in the docs I linked.

    Basically, it explains how you link your FBM morphs to the FBM you want to support, with ERC type 'Multiply' rather than the default 'DeltaAdd'. That way, the FBM morphs will only kick in when the FBM is active. Based on rbtwhiz docs, but the code in your support morph (or dials) should have something like this:

    valueOpDeltaAdd
    Figure
    BODY:1
    FBMAiko4
    deltaMultiply 1

    Of course, I could be wrong, so if you have PhilC on hand, just sent him the link so he cold explain it to you.



  • @'matthacker':

    I'm assuming you use Poser. Here's a guide for DS4 that might give you some ideas how to enable JCMs only when certains conditions are met.

    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/assembling/tutorials/creating_joint_controlled_morphs/start

    I don't exactly know the difference between the method they use and the one I use, but my guess that its probably the same (don't have DAZ). I have various dials that move parts of, or the entire system in and out of the figure. I can do the same for particular FBMs like Aiko.

    I just need to get hold of those figures and make a plan. With programmatically I meant how do I get the pz2 code to listen to the INJ made. Maybe that's what's being explained there, but its not very clear cuz I don't know DAZ at all haha. What I mean is this: Suppose someone already has the Steph INJ loaded, and then, they INJ my thing. My pz2 code will immediately sync to the Stephanie FBM. But will it work the other way round, when my INJ is applied first? I've seen that poser is not always consistent with these things sometimes.

    @'matthacker':

    Step 4 will likely be some interest. I haven't tried it out myself since most of the adjustments I made with Beautiful Bends are not morphs, but it should work. At the very least, it should give you some ideas how to make it work. I believe you're using PhilC's tool for editing?

    I'll try get hold of Steph then. Yeah I use Phil's PZ3Editor (plus he's helping me out a lot now, amazing dude).

    @'matthacker':

    Girl 4 is radically different while S4 mostly resembled V4.

    Yep


    @'hzr':

    lol, screw Girl4 mate :D That morph is hideous anyways.

    Shhh careful, I've got fans in high places that love G4… ;)
    @'hzr':

    I am mostly interested to see how well I can make it work with genesis. In theory it should be possible to just use the pussylips prop and convert the injected morphs from the v4 figure over to genesis so I am really hopeful that I will be able to use it on genesis aswell as on V4.

    You'l get to try very soon. We're just battling with the INJ file. Mofo pz2 shitty wanker bitch ass fuckface cunt-sucking piece of a sodding format :D


    @'Nephanor':

    Screw Genesis mate! (not to be confused with erogenesis) that PROGRAM is hideous anyways! ;) Couldn't resist, while the idea of Genesis is sound, their implementation of it leaves MUCH to be desired. Plus, having to get all new stuff, not worth it. V4 has WAY too much invested in her to leave her alone.

    hehehehehe GLAD to hear that last part… very very glad :D



  • @'hzr':

    lol, screw Girl4 mate :D That morph is hideous anyways.

    I am mostly interested to see how well I can make it work with genesis. In theory it should be possible to just use the pussylips prop and convert the injected morphs from the v4 figure over to genesis so I am really hopeful that I will be able to use it on genesis aswell as on V4.

    Screw Genesis mate! (not to be confused with erogenesis) that PROGRAM is hideous anyways! ;) Couldn't resist, while the idea of Genesis is sound, their implementation of it leaves MUCH to be desired. Plus, having to get all new stuff, not worth it. V4 has WAY too much invested in her to leave her alone.



  • lol, screw Girl4 mate :D That morph is hideous anyways.

    I am mostly interested to see how well I can make it work with genesis. In theory it should be possible to just use the pussylips prop and convert the injected morphs from the v4 figure over to genesis so I am really hopeful that I will be able to use it on genesis aswell as on V4.



  • @'erogenesis':

    I see what you mean and its a good idea. I just need to figure out how to do that programmatically. The thing with my system is that although it might not be 100% perfect, it needs minimal input from users to make it perfect… unlike some of the cumbersome options out there now.

    There will never be a "make art" button, especially if DAZ keeps us fighting to compensate for their pious products, but we can definitely minimize the effort needed. The only thing that might be a problem is not the prop position, but the JCM that correct the thigh shape. I'm not 100% sure if they will work with all FBMs out there. Aiko seemed to work fine. The real test would be Xamvera and Stephanie. My biggest concern is Girl 4. The problem is I don't have those models, so I'll need to leave that to my testers.

    I'm assuming you use Poser. Here's a guide for DS4 that might give you some ideas how to enable JCMs only when certains conditions are met.

    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/assembling/tutorials/creating_joint_controlled_morphs/start

    Step 4 will likely be some interest. I haven't tried it out myself since most of the adjustments I made with Beautiful Bends are not morphs, but it should work. At the very least, it should give you some ideas how to make it work. I believe you're using PhilC's tool for editing?

    Girl 4 is radically different while S4 mostly resembled V4.



  • @'matthacker':

    Here's an example of what I mean. For the conforming prop to support Aiko or Girl 4, you need to make a morph to fit both FBMs. The difference is that with a conforming prop, the morphs in the prop will automatically follow the host figure morphs (ie. Aiko and Girl 4) if you link them properly. If you make it a smart prop, then users will have to manually adjust the morph. There's another way of course, like what Arduino did, but that thing never looked right.

    The prop link is probably also possible. Good that you bring it up. Its a matter of getting the coding correct.

    I just tested it on Aiko, and yes, it needs one adjustment in the Y axis, but then it works fine. I've got all the dials and parameters set up so that it can be applied to any V4 figure.

    @'matthacker':

    Some FBMs I know that affect that area are Heavy, Emaciated, Thin, Young and Bulk. Some PBMs are Torso Thickness, Pregnant and Thigh Thickness. There's also Pubic Depth (S4) and her various FBMs (Stephanie, Ella, Grace, Lily, Madeline, Natalie). You don't have to support them all, but I would think support for FBM Thin, Young, Bulk and PBMs like Torso Thickness, Thigh Thickness will be most welcomed.

    I have "Pussy Up" and "Pussy Rotate Up" :D

    I see what you mean and its a good idea. I just need to figure out how to do that programmatically. The thing with my system is that although it might not be 100% perfect, it needs minimal input from users to make it perfect… unlike some of the cumbersome options out there now.

    There will never be a "make art" button, especially if DAZ keeps us fighting to compensate for their pious products, but we can definitely minimize the effort needed. The only thing that might be a problem is not the prop position, but the JCM that correct the thigh shape. I'm not 100% sure if they will work with all FBMs out there. Aiko seemed to work fine. The real test would be Xamvera and Stephanie. My biggest concern is Girl 4. The problem is I don't have those models, so I'll need to leave that to my testers.

    If there's not too much change down in that area, then it should be ok. Otherwise I might have to make special updates for them. Depends on which one is most popular.

    @'matthacker':

    Unfortunately, there's quite a bit of difference (putting it mildly) on that area between the base V4 shape and the above FBMs/PBMs when you move her legs forward and forward/out. So I'm curious to know how the prop handles all that.

    hehe me too

    @'matthacker':

    I believe the offer for beta testing have been made by others in this thread. So, they should probably get priority before me. I tend to work with animations a lot and my sensibilities will likely be different from those who make still images.

    Well I am going to test for animations. I have a push and pull thrust dial for the prop (I need to make one for anal too) so it might work out nicely.


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