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  • @'rikolo':

    The animation is the harder part, but at least the sex loop can be done pretty fast, if you learn a couple of tricks. It's the non-looped stuff that is a bitch. And you don't need to animate 4000 keyframes, computer does that for you. If you are using such shitty assets that they need to be animated frame by frame, you have only yourself to blame.

    Well, when you mod what's already there in vidya you kinda don't have much choice unless you're importing. But as it applies here, I guess I do agree about non-repetition loops based on my own limited experience of sprite animations. :)

    The hardest part, at least for me, is the software. Or rather figures. If you can use 3Ds max, maya or something and have the knowledge of rigging and creating a character there, you are golden. Otherwise you are stuck with genesis, which works great in daz, but is unusable outside of it. Unfortunately, daz itself is unusable for animation, so that's a catch 22. I am trying to figure out a way to use genesis 2 outside of daz, I have had some success but it's not issue free yet. I have another idea which I want to pursue when I finish my current project.

    ! Ya don't say?!

    cough (an offshoot from Daz) cough
    https://www.morph3d.com
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/search/page=1/sortby=relevance/query=publisher:13832

    Have fun. ;)

    As I understand about the Genesis figures, if you're referring to how morphs and scaling don't work for them in Poser (like I think you are), you have to buy all the tools (you guessed it, from Daz). Yeah, it's basically all there but you have to drop extra coin to unlock it. :dodgy:

    DSON is emulating the figure rather than porting it in directly, and as with any emulation it needs to have 1-to-1 correspondence in its destination environment which is where shit can start to go wrong. I mean, I've seen people render genesis 1 & 2 in poser but people I've talked to who've tried it say it's a good bit of trouble. Aaand then I've talked to at least as many who said it wasn't a problem… If I had poser I'd find out for myself.

    Guess erogenesis made it possible to use genesis 3 in poser but that's something you'll have to check for yourself. shrugs

    Generally I think there is money to be made in animation and I don't think you need ridiculous setup to get you started (however it will set you back couple of thousand dollars). But you have to love what you are doing and pursue money as a added bonus, if you just want to animate for money, I think there are better ways to make them.

    Truth.

    BTW thanks for getting me to look at SFM a little more.



  • @'rikolo':

    I am trying to figure out a way to use genesis 2 outside of daz

    in ue4 ?
    https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Daz_Studio_To_UE4_(Tutorial)

    also
    i stumbled onto vwd (virtual world dynamic) which is a poser (and daz) cloth & hair sim: very fast, quite easy to use, and which helps to render convincing animations (stiff cloth and hair are dead give aways).
    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vwd-cloth-and-hair/114645
    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/daz-studio-bridge-for-vwd-cloth-and-hair/116509



  • Eh you guys worry about the hardware too much, that's honestly the easiest part where you just need money. You don't need anything crazy, just a computer with couple of 980 ti's that can run 24/7. Memory is not an issue at least in Octane, since you can do out of core rendering - use RAM instead of VRAM.

    The animation is the harder part, but at least the sex loop can be done pretty fast, if you learn a couple of tricks. It's the non-looped stuff that is a bitch. And you don't need to animate 4000 keyframes, computer does that for you. If you are using such shitty assets that they need to be animated frame by frame, you have only yourself to blame.

    The hardest part, at least for me, is the software. Or rather figures. If you can use 3Ds max, maya or something and have the knowledge of rigging and creating a character there, you are golden. Otherwise you are stuck with genesis, which works great in daz, but is unusable outside of it. Unfortunately, daz itself is unusable for animation, so that's a catch 22. I am trying to figure out a way to use genesis 2 outside of daz, I have had some success but it's not issue free yet. I have another idea which I want to pursue when I finish my current project.

    Generally I think there is money to be made in animation and I don't think you need ridiculous setup to get you started (however it will set you back couple of thousand dollars). But you have to love what you are doing and pursue money as a added bonus, if you just want to animate for money, I think there are better ways to make them.



  • useful list, thanks a lot :)



  • Всем привет! Ребят помогите найти фильм Ледокол 2016 года в нормальном качестве? Уже весь интернет обыскал и немогу найти.
    Заранее Всем спасибо)



  • The one I checked out is "Practical game development with Unity and Blender" by Alan Thorn.
    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/practical-game-development-with-unity-and-blender-alan-thorn/1124343098?ean=9781305074705

    It emphasized that as a small-time (indie?) game developer you don't have money nor time to spare on big name stuff, you gotta have tools that work and the efficiency of workflow to make it happen and on a timely schedule.

    However, one may wish to see more about each program individually. I'd say at bare minimum avail oneself of the numerous free tutorials all over the net before spending more money. The books all do the same thing and that is to develop knowledge and skill sets to arrive at the general picture of proficiency with the program and having some idea what to do. However, be vigilant and research authors and their fields. This title seems like a balance to me, and it has a pitch for the practical which is what we'd use.

    Other titles of interest (some competitors to above) found searching "blender game" are:

    -Unity Game Development Essentials by Will Goldstone
    -Building a Game with Unity and Blender by Zhi Eng Lee
    -3D Game Design with Unreal Engine 4 and Blender by Justin Plowman
    -Game Development with Blender / Edition 1 by Mike Pan, Dalai Felinto
    -Beginning Blender: Open Source 3D Modeling, Animation, and Game Design by Lance Flavell (edition not listed)
    -Blender Game Engine: Beginner's Guide by Victor kuller bacone
    -Creating 3D Game Art for the iPhone with Unity: Featuring modo and Blender pipelines by Wes McDermott
    -Learning Blender (Book) and Introduction to Blender LiveLessons (Video Training) Bundle / Edition 1 by Oliver Villar
    -The Official Blender Game Kit: Interactive 3d for Artists by Ton Roosendaal, Carsten Wartmann
    -Create your own 3D games with Blender Game Engine: Like pros by Gregory Gossellin de Benicourt

    @OP: I realize everyone including myself have thrown a LOT of info at you in a short time. We're not trying to discourage you but once you get in you'll quickly find (as we have) that this all may be a bit more than you bargained for. We're posting this for your (and others') benefit. And we're certainly glad you have an interest.

    Personally I've found that I'm cool being right here for the time being, among fellow 3DX fans while I myself slowly move in the direction of production. I'm enjoying the view, while keeping the juicy stuff I want to make to myself, though some of it is admittedly common fare alluded to here by pretty much everyone. I decided to join because Supro was such a cool guy, one of the nicest people I've met online.



  • you remember the title maybe? :) could be interesting to check that out



  • To add to the mega processing which will be required, you also have to take additional considerations for memory. Seems like just staying up to par is difficult enough as-is here.

    I'm not entirely sure how the process is for rendering animations but generally speaking: Basically a render is a calculation process which is delegated to the processor's CUDA cores, and it follows the more of them you have, the less time overall it will take. There might be a consideration of balancing memory vs render time. Or maybe not–when you get to flagship and production workstation cards there's fewer of them because they're all these big leviathans at the top of the proverbial food chain as graphics cards go.

    How memory factors into rendering? In order to do the higher quality stuff, you need more memory for the textures and the like--THAT is what eats up system resources (which taxes system memory) most of the time in renders. Then there's loading the scenery, multiple instances, etc.

    Example: In my particular case I got a GTX980ti because it has 6GB of vRAM, but despite its higher clock speed, it has less CUDA cores than a 4GB GTX780 (there was a limited edition 6GB version but that sold out) so for renders my 980 is slower. In all likelihood, though, you're probably looking at workstation GPUs basically at the top of the list of graphics cards as I said above.

    Consider: The bigger the project your hardware is handling, the more exacerbated the delay in time becomes. This is important because being too far below margins of efficiency means you will run into issues of power consumption and system heating which will need to be addressed. This can make operating costs soar.

    For those really good renders? You're going to need workstation graphics cards with at least 12GB of vRAM--efficient enough for production in terms of speed and time, however you may require arrays with multiple of the same card--and more cards can mean more frustration in addition to what I said above.

    Back to memory: your alternatives are choosing to "dump" the work from the vRAM on the GPU(s) to your system RAM on your motherboard.

    OR

    You hire out to a render farm--but I haven't heard of them taking on animations unfortunately.

    OR

    You can try your hand at CPU rendering. You may have a mobo with 48GB or even 64GB. However CPU renders might or might not have the same par as GPU renders. At least I don't think so, but I'll stand corrected.

    Another aspect to consider is what we call 'postwork' where you add in the finer touches after the render. Problem with this? Not huge if it's still images--artists here do it all the time. Animations? You're basically imposing CGI effects on live animation (I.E. digital rotoscoping.)
    I would say this might take the burden off on the overall hardware requirements, but now the issue is the talent and the motivation with whatever software used. How good are you? Can your team handle working together despite their temperament? It's like Star Wars fan films with lightsabers only it's...whatever it is that you're doing. Porn presumably.

    Where you cannot mocap and must do custom animations, this alone can take months, to a year+, because you're making about 4000+ frames for a single animation. I only know this because I was part of a forum where a modder made custom animations for a flowing cape in a videogame where the original model was stiff as a board. He already had 3Dmax. And this was all for a free download.

    One last thing: Another limitation on your highest quality? Polygon count. Naturally animation requires more system resources, so the compromise is in using models which are more "memory efficient" which is just a fancy way of saying that it had higher polygons but the total # of polys were subtracted from it in order to make the animations work. Ever notice in vidya how a character looks better in a cutscene sometimes, but the playing character seems a little more dull and simple? Yeah...that's why.

    Finally, when you get into the thick of 3D making, one thing you'll need to experiment with is configuring your software tools for optimizing your workflow. Remember that term.

    While the higher-resolution stuff like G4E will always be king, the proliferation of using game models and engines like Unreal and Unity to do machinima are going to take over because they can be done in real time like playing a video game. However, unless you want it to look 20 years old, you would have to know how to do stunning real-time rendering on current gaming cards, and that's not a skill everyone has.

    You know, come to think of it there is a book for ~$30 USD I saw at B&N on creating interactive 3D games using free software. I believe it was streamlining workflow between blender and one of those game engines. Shows only how to make a very basic interactive 3D game app, but it's a start.



  • @'jspartan1':

    Thanks for the detailed replies.

    I am quite serious about backing a team if anyone is interested. PM me.

    I am not sure what you have in mind, but we are talking about literally thousands of dollars.



  • Animation by its very nature is easier said than done.

    Right now, a single 32-sensor Perception Neuron rig is about $1500 USD, and that's the highest-resolution unit they make. It's also the best-available option on the market right now for mocap that I've found in that price range. Markerless motion capture still has a long way to go over traditional "dots and ping pong balls", but those systems are ultra-expensive.

    Since the typical 3DX scene involves 2 people, you'll need 2 rigs, so $3000 just for that. While the packaged software says it captures in popular formats, popular formats do not always equal industry standards. A BVH may convert fine in one program with one figure base, but not with another, and will require varying levels of post-work cleanup to work properly.

    Then you have the issue of the Perception Neuron rig not having an option for the genitals, so those have to be animated by hand once the main animation is done.
    You also need motion capture actors. If you're doing it yourself, you might be critical of your performance. If your computer dies (hint: turn off auto-updates, anti-virus, and disconnect from the internet) while you're "doing it", do you stop and fix it or do you keep on "doing it" and fix it later?
    And what if your scene leans towards the more fantastical side like a 22" long 6" diameter cock going into a Tinkerbell fairy? How are you going to mocap that? Shove your forearm into your woman? If she's into it, then it might work. If not, you've got work to do.

    Then you have the issue of interfacing with software you already have and are familiar with, and I-Clone 6 (which offers a PN plugin) is probably not on too many A3D user's computers. At least not as many as Poser or Daz, for which no one seems to have a PN plugin, much less for Genesis 1, 2, or 3.

    The biggest hurdle is rendering power. While there are companies that offer rendering services, it's still expensive and takes months, and you'd better be sure your scenes are fully debugged with no errors or else you won't see them until the final render is delivered, and then you have to resubmit it once you fix it, and pay all over again, and wait all over again.

    If you're looking to fund a project/team, you're looking at giving away a minimum of $10K. I say "giving away" because it's unlikely you will sell 1,000 copies for $10 each, or even 500 copies for $20 each. The higher the price, the lower the sales. Even then, if all it earns is the $10K you invested, the artist has no incentive beyond seeing their work completed. Then there's the commission and cost of the site hosting your downloads and store.

    As well, most people do this as a hobby and not as a career like they do at Pixar, so time for "the real job" and all that other stuff is a factor.

    While the higher-resolution stuff like G4E will always be king, the proliferation of using game models and engines like Unreal and Unity to do machinima are going to take over because they can be done in real time like playing a video game. However, unless you want it to look 20 years old, you would have to know how to do stunning real-time rendering on current gaming cards, and that's not a skill everyone has.



  • Thanks for the detailed replies.

    I am quite serious about backing a team if anyone is interested. PM me.



  • Basicaly what others said. I made two titles with animation loops. each took me about 4 months. I think I could finish them in half of the time if not less if I skipped the animations.

    That being said, I am going to keep on doing animations, hopefuly getting close to a fully animated title. Right now what is holding me back is the software, if you can't make your own figures (like me) you are pretty much forced to use DAZ3D, which is absolute cancer.



  • Hello! This has been discussed before a few times. But to summarize:

    1. Piracy! Most of the vendors here have experienced that an animated title generates as much revenue as a non-animated title. Why spend 1-3 years working on / rendering a title to have it appear on the tube site within 15 minutes of its release?

    So until animation becomes leaps and bounds easier, I think the current trend is away from animation. Don't get me wrong, my wife and I are looking at a pair of Perception Neuron rigs… but then rendering power is still an issue.



  • You already guessed it.

    LOTS of processing power and time. Time is also money. Not only time to pose or create all the animations, then the processing to render it. I only do stills, but still, I'd have to say for most simply the return on investment isn't there.

    We need the processing power to come down, and the software tools. From what I know excellent collision detection would be huge, and help with the animations a lot.


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