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  • Speaking of Genesis 3. http://www.cgbytes.com/store/sku/54044_EZSkin-3 This free script converts the shaders for older human characters to Superfly. And it now supports the Genesis 3 male and female. It used to be availabe at RDNA, it probably still is but a lot of people have migrated to this website to follow Erogenesis after the takeover.



  • @'johnathan:

    I'm glad that Erogenesis is making his own instead of modifying V4. If I was Smith Micro I would go to him and try to make a deal with him to make is poser exclusive. If I may ask is Erogenesis new figure more like Dawn or V4? I know you say V4 clothes and items will fit his figure. But I wonder how well it would compare to Dawn or V4.

    That would make sense for business, I agree. The conundrum was to make a new and improved figure which has all of the legacy compatability with the content the majority of customers in this market are bound to be tethered to.

    As "game changer" I would say project E meanwhile will continue to allow customers breathing room keeping the stuff they've already invested into.

    @'johnathan:

    I think what Daz3d with their Genesis 3 figures and their connect true goal. Is a Subscription base service.

    They can't be too confident if they have an unencrypt key to unlock it in the case they go under. People have already figured out a way to circumvent it anyhow. If the market is hinged around their content, and it's encrypted, then they essentially have it by the throat. Any other entity rising will either have to start anew, or compete in this market which would essentially be a rigged circuit. Expect license fees as well as back doors so nobody outside can threaten the busness model of their empire by allowing it to grow too big–the way their competitor allowed them to do.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'Gator762':

    Okay, this post I don't really get.

    Okay…
    @myself:

    @you:

    Have you priced out Poser Pro, Octane, Octane plugin license, and SSS Octane shaders? Oh, and you still have zero content to render (nothing really worth mentioning anyway). But as I mentioned, Poser's Cycles may be a game-changer there.

    My, my, myyyyy is that a bit of snark I detect from you? :)

    You started coming across like a patronizing old lady, and I tend to tease and mock people who talk down like that because we know the internet is serious business. :angel:

    They all gotta get their money.

    To be clear I get your point, yet at the same time I find the shift ironic coming from someone who from the get-go was on about "don't needlessly spend your money".

    Hawkman has a point, too: Why stop there? The value of your works is what you have that you don't pay for–and he isn't talking about software and tools here.

    Hardly being bled dry.

    Not in the moment, no, and I'm not taking anything away from this. I'm not even saying it's nonsense, just a bit less sense in the long run. See above.

    If I seem like some kind of Daz white knight, that's because it seems there is a lot of paranoia about the whole deal. Trying to inject some rational discussion on it. :)

    Yeah about that…

    1. You admitted in the previous post to essentially being razzed at the implication of being lazy because you spent money on a good deal. So this more just comes across as projecting paranoia on the rest of us to make yourself look better.

    2. While a singular takeover doesn't spell the end of anything but that company, it is a tell of the larger market. If you want to deny monopolization is happening in the larger picture, that's on you but don't get patronizing about it (see #4 below). I disagree with you because to deny it is to ignore the natural outcome of business.

    3. A whiteknight is another form of yes-man, and like a stool pigeon, people don't respect that.

    4. In a nutshell, talking down like this

    You saw RDNA selling more Genesis stuff, I really doubt that's because some Daz musclemen were holding guns to their heads.

    isn't exactly endearing. Got it?

    Nah, the razzing was about being a lazy user who just wants to click a few buttons and get art. I mentioned, a little bit of a sore spot for buying products of poor quality. I'd expect some better quality control on products sold in a store's marketplace, at least the bigger stores like Daz and Renderosity. I'd buy stuff on a sale, didn't get around to rendering it until past the 30 day return period. Either money down the drain, or spending hours re-texturing to fix crap.

    I don't see the RDNA takeover necessarily as a bad thing. They RDNA artists might get access to better tools and resources to put out even better work. Daz isn't a monopoly yet or in the near future, and even if they did if they jacked prices sales would fall through the floor and you'd see other sites pop up. I believe in free markets. ;)

    And speaking of competition, over the past 3 weeks I've seen consistently better deals over at Daz, then over at Rendo. And I'm both a Prime member and a PC+ member.

    Lots of bellyaching about encryption and DS 4.9, I've been using it and no issues here.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'Gator762':

    Okay, this post I don't really get.

    Okay…
    @myself:

    @you:

    Have you priced out Poser Pro, Octane, Octane plugin license, and SSS Octane shaders? Oh, and you still have zero content to render (nothing really worth mentioning anyway). But as I mentioned, Poser's Cycles may be a game-changer there.

    My, my, myyyyy is that a bit of snark I detect from you? :)

    You started coming across like a patronizing old lady, and I tend to tease and mock people who talk down like that because we know the internet is serious business. :angel:

    Nah, it's just trying to get the point across. It's brought up a number of times you're either nickel and dimed to death, or hidden costs. Well to get better renders in Poser I had to blow about a grand… Compared to 30 bucks buying shaders for DS. I spent $35 on V7 pro bundle, but to compare V7 to Pauline... LOL :D

    Again, to be fair now Superfly will bring the cost down a lot.



  • @'Gator762':

    Okay, this post I don't really get.

    Okay…
    @myself:

    @you:

    Have you priced out Poser Pro, Octane, Octane plugin license, and SSS Octane shaders? Oh, and you still have zero content to render (nothing really worth mentioning anyway). But as I mentioned, Poser's Cycles may be a game-changer there.

    My, my, myyyyy is that a bit of snark I detect from you? :)

    You started coming across like a patronizing old lady, and I tend to tease and mock people who talk down like that because we know the internet is serious business. :angel:

    They all gotta get their money.

    To be clear I get your point, yet at the same time I find the shift ironic coming from someone who from the get-go was on about "don't needlessly spend your money".

    Hawkman has a point, too: Why stop there? The value of your works is what you have that you don't pay for–and he isn't talking about software and tools here.

    Hardly being bled dry.

    Not in the moment, no, and I'm not taking anything away from this. I'm not even saying it's nonsense, just a bit less sense in the long run. See above.

    If I seem like some kind of Daz white knight, that's because it seems there is a lot of paranoia about the whole deal. Trying to inject some rational discussion on it. :)

    Yeah about that…

    1. You admitted in the previous post to essentially being razzed at the implication of being lazy because you spent money on a good deal. So this more just comes across as projecting paranoia on the rest of us to make yourself look better.

    2. While a singular takeover doesn't spell the end of anything but that company, it is a tell of the larger market. If you want to deny monopolization is happening in the larger picture, that's on you but don't get patronizing about it (see #4 below). I disagree with you because to deny it is to ignore the natural outcome of business.

    3. A whiteknight is another form of yes-man, and like a stool pigeon, people don't respect that.

    4. In a nutshell, talking down like this

    You saw RDNA selling more Genesis stuff, I really doubt that's because some Daz musclemen were holding guns to their heads.

    isn't exactly endearing. Got it?



  • @ Gator762

    I would say you are just being rational. Your thoughts pretty much summarize my own.

    That being said, with all this bickering, think of the time wasted when everyone involved could be creating content. Stuff going in holes content. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'Gator762':

    They all gotta get their money. At least Poser likely got cheaper now, IMHO before 11 you pretty much had to get another physically based renderer for it. I guess I have to laugh when someone said you gotta buy Iray shaders… Have you priced out Poser Pro, Octane, Octane plugin license, and SSS Octane shaders? Oh, and you still have zero content to render (nothing really worth mentioning anyway). But as I mentioned, Poser's Cycles may be a game-changer there.

    My, my, myyyyy is that a bit of snark I detect from you? :)

    Yeah I have priced them. And again, nothing in the long run beats an investment in the fundamentals that you can bring via mushware to any program you want.

    http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Lighting-Rendering-Edition-Voices/dp/0321928989
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-GIMP-Complete-Everything/dp/1593273835
    And a little one of these at a discount:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121492025678?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82

    folds arms That's all I was saying, at any rate. But please, go on about how a small time handyman should be financially bled out with debt up to his eyeballs instead of learning more and eliminating conservatively 50-60% of costs and be better off for it also because of the knowledge gained.

    Like you what I read so far seems like a friendly acquisition. Which would be cool, as the RDNA artists will continue to provide us good stuff. :)

    They will …until they don't. The press is one thing, the trade is another.

    Okay, this post I don't really get.

    Not saying we handymen should be bled dry, just said D|S wasn't that expensive. Unless you're in a hurry and decide you need it right then. Like I mentioned, the price I got G3F, V7 (and other G3F characters too, actually) was a steal. Content you'd buy anyways, if you're rendering G3F in Poser. And the cost of shaders, again on sale I got a lot for about 20 bucks. I got a few more since, so my total is about $30. Come to think of it, I'll bet a lot more shaders now than I see in the Octane online library, which I haven't seen change since I bought it. Hardly being bled dry.

    I've had some other expenses for fitting clothing, converting poses & morphs, I'm not sure you can count most of that since you'd probably need similar on the Poser end, if it exists. Well, the clothing room is included but it generally blows. :dodgy:

    Although I will say I wish DS had Poser 2014's Morph Brush.

    The RuntimeDNA peeps? I'm sure what they develop will largely depend on what sells. You saw RDNA selling more Genesis stuff, I really doubt that's because some Daz musclemen were holding guns to their heads. It's because the market is shifting that way & they started to shift too in response. Besides, if you can render Genesis in Poser, then its a grey area, not really 100% Daz content. (Same can be said for Poser content in DS). If I seem like some kind of Daz white knight, that's because it seems there is a lot of paranoia about the whole deal. Trying to inject some rational discussion on it. :)



  • @'Gator762':

    They all gotta get their money. At least Poser likely got cheaper now, IMHO before 11 you pretty much had to get another physically based renderer for it. I guess I have to laugh when someone said you gotta buy Iray shaders… Have you priced out Poser Pro, Octane, Octane plugin license, and SSS Octane shaders? Oh, and you still have zero content to render (nothing really worth mentioning anyway). But as I mentioned, Poser's Cycles may be a game-changer there.

    My, my, myyyyy is that a bit of snark I detect from you? :)

    Yeah I have priced them. And again, nothing in the long run beats an investment in the fundamentals that you can bring via mushware to any program you want.

    http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Lighting-Rendering-Edition-Voices/dp/0321928989
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-GIMP-Complete-Everything/dp/1593273835
    And a little one of these at a discount:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121492025678?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82

    folds arms That's all I was saying, at any rate. But please, go on about how a small time handyman should be financially bled out with debt up to his eyeballs instead of learning more and eliminating conservatively 50-60% of costs and be better off for it also because of the knowledge gained.

    Like you what I read so far seems like a friendly acquisition. Which would be cool, as the RDNA artists will continue to provide us good stuff. :)

    They will …until they don't. The press is one thing, the trade is another.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'Gator762':

    Not that I'm sort of Daz apologist

    Coulda fooled me, "Ronald". :)
    Since I met you a few weeks ago, you've been on it and all about it.

    or white knight, but that's impossible to know. It's speculation.

    Businesses, although made up of people, behave more rationally than people. I really doubt they bought RDNA to kill them off. I could be completely wrong, they seem to be much smaller than Renderosity. Hard to rationalize a benefit of spending loads of money to kill them off when they don't appear to be a threat to their bottom line.

    Sometimes businesses are bought for the name, for the product, or for the talent.

    Well, I would say talent is probably the foremost reason. The content products are a close second because: what a better way to showcase talent (in this market)?

    As it pertains to logically driven business practices, wherewithal is important. Even if your idea and strategy have solid foundations, unless you have the means to pull it off, it's speculation. Though one perhaps should guard it closely if it's unique because a time may come in the future.

    Whether RDNA was having financial trouble, or someone at Zygote simply convinced them it was in everyone's best interests here to join forces, the impression I get is there had been friendly dialogue prior. So even if this was merely a friendly acquisition, the wheels are in motion towards a monopoly. Maybe not an absolute-own-everything centrally controlled monopoly, but one in which they are predominantly the brand. For all I know, they may figure that a rival appearing to be inferior (Poser) is just what they want.

    BTW, that input came (paraphrased, but still in context) from the commenter on my most recent dA journal. Personally I'm just as guilty of apathy and laziness, mostly due to inexperience. Again, I won't deny product quality, but we've talked about this enough I think. Suffice it to say, yes a well made product is simply the way to go sometimes.

    However, as others have now said, it's basically the nickle-and-dime-to-death strategy of pay as you go that Daz is doing. In the long run you STILL spend about as much $$$, and you STILL have to learn a little and it STILL takes some doing yourself.

    Personally I posit a comprehensive knowledge of the inner workings of the 3D medium on the whole PLUS some experience in each area is necessary if you are to do anything beyond messing about with pre-made stuff. It's MORE worth it to invest in some hard knowledge that universally translates no matter where you use it–rather than getting sucked into the rat-race-goose-chase of buying into something. Rather than pay a price upwards of 3 weeks of my money, I could spend this time (possibly more) to undertake learning how to make the same stuff.

    I repeatedly read from people who defend "hard to use" free programs
    "A new program merely takes getting used to if you already know and understand 3D (or 2D, etc.)."

    All things considered I have to agree. While modding and ROM hacking are diffierent from illustrations, I can sort of corroborate this notion. Example: a "blind run" of a new romhack of a familiar title isn't as horrible if you know the original game well. My experiences in this area are another matter.

    Hah hah, yeah the post about laziness and all the utilities to try to get clothing to fit pushes my buttons. Even though it's probably not directed at me, I've either tried or use them all. Thankfully all that money on clothing isn't down the drain as the autofit seems to transfer V4 clothing to G3F well.

    They all gotta get their money. At least Poser likely got cheaper now, IMHO before 11 you pretty much had to get another physically based renderer for it. I guess I have to laugh when someone said you gotta buy Iray shaders… Have you priced out Poser Pro, Octane, Octane plugin license, and SSS Octane shaders? Oh, and you still have zero content to render (nothing really worth mentioning anyway). But as I mentioned, Poser's Cycles may be a game-changer there.

    Like you what I read so far seems like a friendly acquisition. Which would be cool, as the RDNA artists will continue to provide us good stuff. :)



  • @'johnathan:

    Question is how does this change things. Now that people can get Genesis 3 into poser.

    It will probably allow folks to keep options open who want to move upwards in terms of figures to use now.

    This proves, in the meantime, the compatability label as Daz's store is a strong recommendation and not absolute.

    Since it isn't encrypted, artists now have the option to create stuff for Poser with this recent generation, one caveat being more likely 'Rosity members since Daz explicitly wants to leave Poser behind and would frown at their own artists making generation 7 content for Poser.

    @'thehawkman':

    If I knew how to install DAZ properly, I might give it a shot. Although I'd still prefer a native figure. I am cautiously optimistic that Erogenesis can deliver.

    Like we discussed before, I would install 4.8 and then have a separate directory for 4.9. Obviously don't touch install manager nor Daz Connect.

    @'johnathan:

    Isn't Erogenesis working on a modify Victoria 4?

    More like the all encompassing figure. from generation 4 to current generation 7/genesis 3. –As I'm sure you probably see now. :)

    @Gator:

    I'm not sure if RDNA was Daz3d competition sure it had poser content,but it not as big as Rendosity. Still if Daz3d is going out to buy it competitions. I wonder who next? Rendo might be to big to consume,and it basically Daz 2. The creator of Hivewired 3d use to work with Daz3d but got fired,So I'm not sure there on Daz3d. Renderotica? No Daz3d avoids all that is porn. Although it could use a third party to get renderotica.

    It could. More likely, if avoiding it is their goal then buying it up is actually a better idea, if counter-intuitive.

    @'Gator762':

    Not that I'm sort of Daz apologist

    Coulda fooled me, "Ronald". :)
    Since I met you a few weeks ago, you've been on it and all about it.

    or white knight, but that's impossible to know. It's speculation.

    Businesses, although made up of people, behave more rationally than people. I really doubt they bought RDNA to kill them off. I could be completely wrong, they seem to be much smaller than Renderosity. Hard to rationalize a benefit of spending loads of money to kill them off when they don't appear to be a threat to their bottom line.

    Sometimes businesses are bought for the name, for the product, or for the talent.

    Well, I would say talent is probably the foremost reason. The content products are a close second because: what a better way to showcase talent (in this market)?

    As it pertains to logically driven business practices, wherewithal is important. Even if your idea and strategy have solid foundations, unless you have the means to pull it off, it's speculation. Though one perhaps should guard it closely if it's unique because a time may come in the future.

    Whether RDNA was having financial trouble, or someone at Zygote simply convinced them it was in everyone's best interests here to join forces, the impression I get is there had been friendly dialogue prior. So even if this was merely a friendly acquisition, the wheels are in motion towards a monopoly. Maybe not an absolute-own-everything centrally controlled monopoly, but one in which they are predominantly the brand. For all I know, they may figure that a rival appearing to be inferior (Poser) is just what they want.

    BTW, that input came (paraphrased, but still in context) from the commenter on my most recent dA journal. Personally I'm just as guilty of apathy and laziness, mostly due to inexperience. Again, I won't deny product quality, but we've talked about this enough I think. Suffice it to say, yes a well made product is simply the way to go sometimes.

    However, as others have now said, it's basically the nickle-and-dime-to-death strategy of pay as you go that Daz is doing. In the long run you STILL spend about as much $$$, and you STILL have to learn a little and it STILL takes some doing yourself.

    Personally I posit a comprehensive knowledge of the inner workings of the 3D medium on the whole PLUS some experience in each area is necessary if you are to do anything beyond messing about with pre-made stuff. It's MORE worth it to invest in some hard knowledge that universally translates no matter where you use it–rather than getting sucked into the rat-race-goose-chase of buying into something. Rather than pay a price upwards of 3 weeks of my money, I could spend this time (possibly more) to undertake learning how to make the same stuff.

    I repeatedly read from people who defend "hard to use" free programs
    "A new program merely takes getting used to if you already know and understand 3D (or 2D, etc.)."

    All things considered I have to agree. While modding and ROM hacking are diffierent from illustrations, I can sort of corroborate this notion. Example: a "blind run" of a new romhack of a familiar title isn't as horrible if you know the original game well. My experiences in this area are another matter.

    @Hawk:

    I can thinkl of one example off the top of my head. Adobe bought Macromedia, which no longer exists, although Dreamweaver and Flash are still around. If I were to spend time on Google, I could probably find others. What I said about Carrara and Hexagon is also based on what little I read on the DAZ forums, as well as over at RDNA. Hexagon hasn't been updated in years. And considering how they dropped support for Poser over at the DAZ website I am willing to bet this was just meant to bury it.

    "When I was producing high quality freebies over at Daz freepozitory I actually began to receive hate mail! People telling me I was hurting their business because my products were free and people would use them instead of buying products!
    that truly shocked me! and in the end it drove me out of doing what I did. because it just became to much of a grind to produce good product for free and then get abused for doing it!

    The Daz forums also changed and became far less a community and more a regimented system of promoting nothing but Daz product and ethos."

    And seriously, on what planet would a company continue selling products that help its competitor survive?

    Why, oh why doesn't this surprise me?

    Ditto of my perception about the forum. While there is basic documentation, you're on your own as far as plugins or tools–go to the product author's page (which often times are quite a bit more helpful). While their forums are easy enough to navigate for help and support, I get that dreadful impression of some ever present empty void.

    It's like how some villains finish off others or remain in control: they give just enough breathing room, just enough hope to keep them going (or just enough to keep away the regulators with spines and moral character, or who are just looking for revenue) but basically own their rivals.



  • @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    @'Gator762':

    @'johnathan:

    @'Gator762':

    For sure, I plan on keeping my PPro 2014 license and Octane licenses. Of course I've been purchasing Genesis 3 content. With Poser, I've been getting frustrated feeling like I've been handicapped by content for too long. If SM gets off their ass that could change, but I don't see that happening soon… :-/

    What about plugins and Utility that make using poser easy?

    Poser has more support, but I feel that's changing. It kinda brings to a whole 'nother discussion about Poser, but there's also been lots of annoyances with Poser that has driven me to try Daz Studio. Lots of the plugins and utility because what was built-in seriously needed work, and drove people outside SM to fix or address it. Daz Studio ain't perfect, but I find it easier for what I do.

    ETA: Heck man, I've been on the Poser side of the fence for years. I always figured Poser was better, and never even tried DS. Fortunately, a sale on Genesis 3 finally got me to give it a shot, and I like it. :)

    Yeah well, I tried it first. Being free and all. I was so excited too. My face was getting longer the longer I was fiddling around. When I got the error message that it couldn't find its own files in the Inside the Asylum demo scene, I was like "Thank God I didn't pay for this". So I'm not speaking lightly.

    How long ago was that? I loaded 4.8, fiddled with it for like a day or two then they came out with 4.9. Didn't use 4.8 too much but it worked OK. 4.9 working well here.

    4.6 I think, but it was the interface that just didn't sit well with me. I just can't describe it. It's like trying to use Total Commander. It gets in the way in every way possible. I'm used to right clicking on the empty space to get the contextual menu, but in TC I can't because when you click something it selects the entire row. There are two things I like about DAZ. The way it handles camera movement, and the cube thingy.



  • I think Renderosity has lost some popularity just see their some of their popular vendors has almost left Renderosity for Daz: OOT, Ironman13, SWAM (even he was always on both, now he's focus Daz) Sabby most her released are on Daz, P3Design, Lunchlady (dragonfly3d) …

    Most of my money was spend on Renderosity (i was prime membership) & very few @ Daz, now i'm focus G2/G3 most of my money is spent on Daz, as it said earlier i think Daz will meat Renderosity too as they did with RDNA.



  • @'johnathan:

    @'Gator762':

    They're not going to throw away money. ;)

    They bought RuntimeDNA, which has both Daz and Poser content. We know they also have some of their talented individuals now on their payroll. That could shift their focus, I imagine that will depend more upon what sells. If Poser content brings money rolling in, I bet they keep doing it. But if the shifting balance of Poser content to Daz content is any indication, Daz content sells more.

    Look at Daz vs. Smith Micro - SM focuses on selling you Poser. Daz focuses on content. Whether you use V4, M4, A4, or Genesis 1-3 figures in Daz or Poser doesn't matter to Daz, they make money. For SM, they're only making money if you use those figures in Poser.

    Not so fast. You forgot about renderosity. I lot of people Don't like to buy from Daz3d.
    So expect a lot people going to renderosity. Add the fact that there a plugin that can put Genesis 3 in poser.

    Renderosity doesn't write either program, and sells to both. Although it's interesting, as some PAs like outoftouch and lilflame sell content at both Renderosity and Daz.

    But Renderosity pissed off a bunch of customers, myself included, when they slaughtered the Prime program. They killed it, but all of us who paid full price got nothing. Now it sells for only $29, because no one would buy it for full price. I stopped buying from Rendo when they did that, and have only bought a few G3F things there because it isn't offered anywhere else. Now I'm a PC+ member. They sent 95% of my purchases to Daz.



  • @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    @'Gator762':

    Not that I'm sort of Daz apologist or white knight, but that's impossible to know. It's speculation.

    Businesses, although made up of people, behave more rationally than people. I really doubt they bought RDNA to kill them off. I could be completely wrong, they seem to be much smaller than Renderosity. Hard to rationalize a benefit of spending loads of money to kill them off when they don't appear to be a threat to their bottom line.

    Sometimes businesses are bought for the name, for the product, or for the talent.

    I can thinkl of one example off the top of my head. Adobe bought Macromedia, which no longer exists, although Dreamweaver and Flash are still around. If I were to spend time on Google, I could probably find others. What I said about Carrara and Hexagon is also based on what little I read on the DAZ forums, as well as over at RDNA. Hexagon hasn't been updated in years. And considering how they dropped support for Poser over at the DAZ website I am willing to bet this was just meant to bury it.

    "When I was producing high quality freebies over at Daz freepozitory I actually began to receive hate mail! People telling me I was hurting their business because my products were free and people would use them instead of buying products!
    that truly shocked me! and in the end it drove me out of doing what I did. because it just became to much of a grind to produce good product for free and then get abused for doing it!

    The Daz forums also changed and became far less a community and more a regimented system of promoting nothing but Daz product and ethos."

    And seriously, on what planet would a company continue selling products that help its competitor survive?

    Right. They bought them for the product. The products live on but the original company's name does not.

    Yeah, I've read too that Hexagon and Carrera have languished for years. Good thing there are plenty of good alternatives out there.

    The Daz forums? Those people are probably not affiliated with Daz, other than they are PAs through them.

    Doesn't look so grim, here's a lighting set for Poser 2014 sold as a Daz Original and it lists RuntimeDNA. Also free too with the purchase of a Daz original. In my cart with a $3 PC+ item. :D
    http://www.daz3d.com/render-studio-modular-1-4-scenes-for-poser

    I guess Poser money is good now all of a sudden. They've been saying for years that it's dying and now they're turning around? But what the hell is that? Install Manager is for DAZ isn't it? Or is it how Genesis 3 figures were listed as DSON compatible even though that was not the case?

    They're not going to throw away money. ;)

    They bought RuntimeDNA, which has both Daz and Poser content. We know they also have some of their talented individuals now on their payroll. That could shift their focus, I imagine that will depend more upon what sells. If Poser content brings money rolling in, I bet they keep doing it. But if the shifting balance of Poser content to Daz content is any indication, Daz content sells more.

    Look at Daz vs. Smith Micro - SM focuses on selling you Poser. Daz focuses on content. Whether you use V4, M4, A4, or Genesis 1-3 figures in Daz or Poser doesn't matter to Daz, they make money. For SM, they're only making money if you use those figures in Poser.

    Not so fast. You forgot about renderosity. I lot of people Don't like to buy from Daz3d.
    So expect a lot people going to renderosity. Add the fact that there a plugin that can put Genesis 3 in poser.



  • @'thehawkman':

    @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    Yeah, I kind of share that opinion too. But we also say "I'm gonna fuck you up!". And they do fuck up as well. See Carrara and Hexagon. And in this particular case, I wonder if they actually expected this backlash to happen. I know that there are cases where you buy your competitor just to kill it off before its gets too big for you.
    And yes, that is their goal, which is precisely why I am now refusing to use it.

    Not that I'm sort of Daz apologist or white knight, but that's impossible to know. It's speculation.

    Businesses, although made up of people, behave more rationally than people. I really doubt they bought RDNA to kill them off. I could be completely wrong, they seem to be much smaller than Renderosity. Hard to rationalize a benefit of spending loads of money to kill them off when they don't appear to be a threat to their bottom line.

    Sometimes businesses are bought for the name, for the product, or for the talent.

    I can thinkl of one example off the top of my head. Adobe bought Macromedia, which no longer exists, although Dreamweaver and Flash are still around. If I were to spend time on Google, I could probably find others. What I said about Carrara and Hexagon is also based on what little I read on the DAZ forums, as well as over at RDNA. Hexagon hasn't been updated in years. And considering how they dropped support for Poser over at the DAZ website I am willing to bet this was just meant to bury it.

    "When I was producing high quality freebies over at Daz freepozitory I actually began to receive hate mail! People telling me I was hurting their business because my products were free and people would use them instead of buying products!
    that truly shocked me! and in the end it drove me out of doing what I did. because it just became to much of a grind to produce good product for free and then get abused for doing it!

    The Daz forums also changed and became far less a community and more a regimented system of promoting nothing but Daz product and ethos."

    And seriously, on what planet would a company continue selling products that help its competitor survive?

    Right. They bought them for the product. The products live on but the original company's name does not.

    Yeah, I've read too that Hexagon and Carrera have languished for years. Good thing there are plenty of good alternatives out there.

    The Daz forums? Those people are probably not affiliated with Daz, other than they are PAs through them.

    Doesn't look so grim, here's a lighting set for Poser 2014 sold as a Daz Original and it lists RuntimeDNA. Also free too with the purchase of a Daz original. In my cart with a $3 PC+ item. :D
    http://www.daz3d.com/render-studio-modular-1-4-scenes-for-poser

    I guess Poser money is good now all of a sudden. They've been saying for years that it's dying and now they're turning around? But what the hell is that? Install Manager is for DAZ isn't it? Or is it how Genesis 3 figures were listed as DSON compatible even though that was not the case?

    They're not going to throw away money. ;)

    They bought RuntimeDNA, which has both Daz and Poser content. We know they also have some of their talented individuals now on their payroll. That could shift their focus, I imagine that will depend more upon what sells. If Poser content brings money rolling in, I bet they keep doing it. But if the shifting balance of Poser content to Daz content is any indication, Daz content sells more.

    Look at Daz vs. Smith Micro - SM focuses on selling you Poser. Daz focuses on content. Whether you use V4, M4, A4, or Genesis 1-3 figures in Daz or Poser doesn't matter to Daz, they make money. For SM, they're only making money if you use those figures in Poser.



  • @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    Yeah, I kind of share that opinion too. But we also say "I'm gonna fuck you up!". And they do fuck up as well. See Carrara and Hexagon. And in this particular case, I wonder if they actually expected this backlash to happen. I know that there are cases where you buy your competitor just to kill it off before its gets too big for you.
    And yes, that is their goal, which is precisely why I am now refusing to use it.

    Not that I'm sort of Daz apologist or white knight, but that's impossible to know. It's speculation.

    Businesses, although made up of people, behave more rationally than people. I really doubt they bought RDNA to kill them off. I could be completely wrong, they seem to be much smaller than Renderosity. Hard to rationalize a benefit of spending loads of money to kill them off when they don't appear to be a threat to their bottom line.

    Sometimes businesses are bought for the name, for the product, or for the talent.

    I can thinkl of one example off the top of my head. Adobe bought Macromedia, which no longer exists, although Dreamweaver and Flash are still around. If I were to spend time on Google, I could probably find others. What I said about Carrara and Hexagon is also based on what little I read on the DAZ forums, as well as over at RDNA. Hexagon hasn't been updated in years. And considering how they dropped support for Poser over at the DAZ website I am willing to bet this was just meant to bury it.

    "When I was producing high quality freebies over at Daz freepozitory I actually began to receive hate mail! People telling me I was hurting their business because my products were free and people would use them instead of buying products!
    that truly shocked me! and in the end it drove me out of doing what I did. because it just became to much of a grind to produce good product for free and then get abused for doing it!

    The Daz forums also changed and became far less a community and more a regimented system of promoting nothing but Daz product and ethos."

    And seriously, on what planet would a company continue selling products that help its competitor survive?

    Right. They bought them for the product. The products live on but the original company's name does not.

    Yeah, I've read too that Hexagon and Carrera have languished for years. Good thing there are plenty of good alternatives out there.

    The Daz forums? Those people are probably not affiliated with Daz, other than they are PAs through them.

    Doesn't look so grim, here's a lighting set for Poser 2014 sold as a Daz Original and it lists RuntimeDNA. Also free too with the purchase of a Daz original. In my cart with a $3 PC+ item. :D
    http://www.daz3d.com/render-studio-modular-1-4-scenes-for-poser

    I guess Poser money is good now all of a sudden. They've been saying for years that it's dying and now they're turning around? But what the hell is that? Install Manager is for DAZ isn't it? Or is it how Genesis 3 figures were listed as DSON compatible even though that was not the case?



  • @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    Yeah, I kind of share that opinion too. But we also say "I'm gonna fuck you up!". And they do fuck up as well. See Carrara and Hexagon. And in this particular case, I wonder if they actually expected this backlash to happen. I know that there are cases where you buy your competitor just to kill it off before its gets too big for you.
    And yes, that is their goal, which is precisely why I am now refusing to use it.

    Not that I'm sort of Daz apologist or white knight, but that's impossible to know. It's speculation.

    Businesses, although made up of people, behave more rationally than people. I really doubt they bought RDNA to kill them off. I could be completely wrong, they seem to be much smaller than Renderosity. Hard to rationalize a benefit of spending loads of money to kill them off when they don't appear to be a threat to their bottom line.

    Sometimes businesses are bought for the name, for the product, or for the talent.

    I can thinkl of one example off the top of my head. Adobe bought Macromedia, which no longer exists, although Dreamweaver and Flash are still around. If I were to spend time on Google, I could probably find others. What I said about Carrara and Hexagon is also based on what little I read on the DAZ forums, as well as over at RDNA. Hexagon hasn't been updated in years. And considering how they dropped support for Poser over at the DAZ website I am willing to bet this was just meant to bury it.

    "When I was producing high quality freebies over at Daz freepozitory I actually began to receive hate mail! People telling me I was hurting their business because my products were free and people would use them instead of buying products!
    that truly shocked me! and in the end it drove me out of doing what I did. because it just became to much of a grind to produce good product for free and then get abused for doing it!

    The Daz forums also changed and became far less a community and more a regimented system of promoting nothing but Daz product and ethos."

    And seriously, on what planet would a company continue selling products that help its competitor survive?

    Right. They bought them for the product. The products live on but the original company's name does not.

    Yeah, I've read too that Hexagon and Carrera have languished for years. Good thing there are plenty of good alternatives out there.

    The Daz forums? Those people are probably not affiliated with Daz, other than they are PAs through them.

    Doesn't look so grim, here's a lighting set for Poser 2014 sold as a Daz Original and it lists RuntimeDNA. Also free too with the purchase of a Daz original. In my cart with a $3 PC+ item. :D
    http://www.daz3d.com/render-studio-modular-1-4-scenes-for-poser

    Maybe Affect3d should open their doors for vendors. I mean If I could buy Genital props,fetish gears,and sexy poses here it would give users more options other then go to renderotica. Which isn't a bad site. Is just we need more sites like that like this site.



  • @'thehawkman':

    @'Gator762':

    @'johnathan:

    @'Gator762':

    @'johnathan:

    You should always keep your options open. You never know what direction the winds will blow. Daz3d may make since now,but what happens when Daz3d goes Full connect? What happens is poser gets improve or vice versa?

    For sure, I plan on keeping my PPro 2014 license and Octane licenses. Of course I've been purchasing Genesis 3 content. With Poser, I've been getting frustrated feeling like I've been handicapped by content for too long. If SM gets off their ass that could change, but I don't see that happening soon… :-/

    What about plugins and Utility that make using poser easy?

    Poser has more support, but I feel that's changing. It kinda brings to a whole 'nother discussion about Poser, but there's also been lots of annoyances with Poser that has driven me to try Daz Studio. Lots of the plugins and utility because what was built-in seriously needed work, and drove people outside SM to fix or address it. Daz Studio ain't perfect, but I find it easier for what I do.

    ETA: Heck man, I've been on the Poser side of the fence for years. I always figured Poser was better, and never even tried DS. Fortunately, a sale on Genesis 3 finally got me to give it a shot, and I like it. :)

    Yeah well, I tried it first. Being free and all. I was so excited too. My face was getting longer the longer I was fiddling around. When I got the error message that it couldn't find its own files in the Inside the Asylum demo scene, I was like "Thank God I didn't pay for this". So I'm not speaking lightly.

    How long ago was that? I loaded 4.8, fiddled with it for like a day or two then they came out with 4.9. Didn't use 4.8 too much but it worked OK. 4.9 working well here.



  • @'thehawkman':

    @'Gator762':

    @'thehawkman':

    Yeah, I kind of share that opinion too. But we also say "I'm gonna fuck you up!". And they do fuck up as well. See Carrara and Hexagon. And in this particular case, I wonder if they actually expected this backlash to happen. I know that there are cases where you buy your competitor just to kill it off before its gets too big for you.
    And yes, that is their goal, which is precisely why I am now refusing to use it.

    Not that I'm sort of Daz apologist or white knight, but that's impossible to know. It's speculation.

    Businesses, although made up of people, behave more rationally than people. I really doubt they bought RDNA to kill them off. I could be completely wrong, they seem to be much smaller than Renderosity. Hard to rationalize a benefit of spending loads of money to kill them off when they don't appear to be a threat to their bottom line.

    Sometimes businesses are bought for the name, for the product, or for the talent.

    I can thinkl of one example off the top of my head. Adobe bought Macromedia, which no longer exists, although Dreamweaver and Flash are still around. If I were to spend time on Google, I could probably find others. What I said about Carrara and Hexagon is also based on what little I read on the DAZ forums, as well as over at RDNA. Hexagon hasn't been updated in years. And considering how they dropped support for Poser over at the DAZ website I am willing to bet this was just meant to bury it.

    "When I was producing high quality freebies over at Daz freepozitory I actually began to receive hate mail! People telling me I was hurting their business because my products were free and people would use them instead of buying products!
    that truly shocked me! and in the end it drove me out of doing what I did. because it just became to much of a grind to produce good product for free and then get abused for doing it!

    The Daz forums also changed and became far less a community and more a regimented system of promoting nothing but Daz product and ethos."

    And seriously, on what planet would a company continue selling products that help its competitor survive?

    Right. They bought them for the product. The products live on but the original company's name does not.

    Yeah, I've read too that Hexagon and Carrera have languished for years. Good thing there are plenty of good alternatives out there.

    The Daz forums? Those people are probably not affiliated with Daz, other than they are PAs through them.

    Doesn't look so grim, here's a lighting set for Poser 2014 sold as a Daz Original and it lists RuntimeDNA. Also free too with the purchase of a Daz original. In my cart with a $3 PC+ item. :D
    http://www.daz3d.com/render-studio-modular-1-4-scenes-for-poser


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