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  • Thank you, sounds great how you are going to deal with the critical problems.
    One last question if I may ask is how are you going to deal with, not critical problems, but with the functionality of the program, such as drastic drop of the submission success rate of some of the platforms? To me, as a potential buyer, its not acceptable to be unable to post to some of the major platforms for a whole month.



  • Yeah, Blender is the only one, that is a complete 3D suite, that I know for sure that can rig anything for Daz.
    I've mentioned some alternatives but maybe not given details. I make no claims as to the suitability (file saving) of what is produced by these. A buddy of mine from a game forum has been using Blender for years since it started and has linked up a series of tutorials. I want to try them myself (currently unable with this computer) before I share them here.

    There's Gmax, which is essentially the modeling and sculpting portion of 3Dmax ripped out (minus some bells and whistles), reconfigured and made freeware. Similarly there's Sculptris likewise for Z-brush, likely you'll need a decent tablet to make it work right just like its originator. I just discovered Curvy3D which supposedly is easier to learn than gmax, no idea.

    Also I can elaborate for tablets if ya want, too.

    Zbrush may be way better for what I'm trying to do but it's expensive.

    Yeah that's what I said until I got a look at MODO's prices, and autodesk's prices for 3Dmax, Maya, and Mudbox. Now suddenly that ~$650 + tablet doesn't look so bad. Still ain't cheap though, so I definitely agree.

    EDIT: I thought of some workarounds in addition to trying a copypasta re-rig method you're apparently doing.

    1. Backwards-transfer. Measure metrics is required, but you could try expoting G3F or V7 as OBJ. then re-importing as a V4.2 morph. Since it's the shoes you want, if you have the shapes and sizes of your new figures translated to the native V4.2 format then the shoes might be a little more cooperative in re-shaping and resizing. Then at least you'll have the shape to fit g3f/v7 now, though good luck getting them to play nicely together.

    2. Generation hopping forward: Since there's the V4 for V6 tool, use this (noting that adjustments will be needed to get the exact original shape) and then try auto-fit on the V6. THEN once you have succeeded here, use the transfer methods for the body (since the face hasn't quite caught up as yet) from G2F to G3F. Again I might suggest (without having used G3F or V7) further adjustments to get the shape again. Then fit the shoes to the new (old) shape for the generation 7 figure. If Daz's morph transfer actually works for V4 to newer generations, couldn't hurt to take it a step further. May not be as direct but it's better than nothing I suppose. You'll have to deal with the old bullshit anatomic shape. shrug



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @Gator762: Believe you me, I'm not blind how superior V7 is compared with V4.

    Just give it time and fixes will be out for it…or give it your best work for now. I try fitting V4 shoes to G2F and some just don't like the new figure. Even if their shape conforms, I have to turn off limits because they tend to hover a few inches below or off her feet. If I try to start with limits off, though, then they stay shapen to V4 and never work. I would imagine your troubles are similar but probably worse because as time goes on support diminishes.

    Thankfully for the valentine's sale I got me an Iray converter for generation 4. :)

    Argh. Man I've tried with the other method for the shoes now, and that hasn't worked either. Fawk. The other method was by tgunner for G2F, as I mentioned exporting as an obj, re-importing and transferring the rigging.

    So I thought fuck it, I'll try to go as an OBJ and re-rig entirely. I think my approach is good but I'm stuck with Blender as I don't know it very well. Zbrush may be way better for what I'm trying to do but it's expensive.

    So here's my approach, but to start, it's important to note that G3F's feet & ankles are quite a bit different than V4's. They are also a size or two smaller.
    1. I loaded up V4, loaded the shoes in question, and posed her feet to them.
    2. I loaded up G3F. Then I posed her legs and feet to match V4's in the shoes as close as I can. Now I have the feet pose.
    3. I exported G3F and the shoes as an OBJ.
    4. I opened those OBJs into Blender.
    5. The plan is to edit them in Blender, then export the shoes as OBJ (where I'm stuck).
    6. Rig the properly modeled shoes to G3F from scratch.

    Fortunately, the clothing seems to work pretty well. Biggest con is with adding the subd and mesh smoothing and jacking up the collision iterations it chews up more memory and the save files are bigger.



  • @'thehawkman':

    @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    I hate to say it but I think the only way Poser might get the upper hand is either making more of its own figures better in the broader market, or partnering up with erogenesis in this market. Or both. –And maybe fix some of these other little issues plaguing it on renders while they're at it. Pixar and vidya development were smart, now let's see SM pour some $$$ into R&D and into fixing its existing problems. I'm saying this as someone who really does want to see them survive inot the future and keep things competitive.

    Has anyone also noticed how much Renderosity is starting to really supply Genesis 3 items? Many of the same vendors as the Daz store too. This is probably another reason the market is beginning to visibly shift.

    Well after the mess that is Pauline what do you expect? She looks decent with Darkseal's Pauline plus but the default figure is a disaster. Someone on Renderosity put it best: "Shane, don't you think that after 13 years of botched figures there is a pattern emerging? The folks at SM can't model or rig for sht. Sorry. And they are too stingy to hire professional talent. Sorry. They throw stuff out in the hopes that "the community" will fix it. Which actually worked somehow in the past, but mostly because the average Poser hobbyist can't spot professional work even if it bites him in the a*. But DAZ went serious a couple af years ago, sinking a lot of money into figure development, and now the lack of quality of Poser content becomes obvious even to the most ignorant Poser users. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against "hobbyist" content, not even in the marketpkace. (Although a lot of the stuff sold really keeps me wondering what the modeller and especially his customers were thinking) But when it comes to figures, I don't give an inch. These are the main tools of the program, and without proper, anatomical "correct" humans, we could just as well all stayed with Poser 4 and Posette. Or stay with V4 and a few "fixes" forever. As for professional modellers, who in his right mind would want to work for Poser, given the profit margins you can achieve here ? Unless he is paid in advance ? If someone is willing to pay for a truly professionaly made "exclusive Poser" mesh, I'm all for it. But you still need all the mapping, the textures, the morphs and the clothing getting made and the testing and the marketing. This takes $$$ and can't be done by a group of bright eyed volunteers. Simply not worth the effort given how big we (Everyone of us, including SM) let DAZ' monopoly grow. Sorry, SM was asleep behind the wheel and they've got a rude awakening. So, yes, I'm all for SM "selling out" to DAZ. It would immediately re-unite the communities and give merchants the ability to cater to both systems again without having to make compromises. I think that would be the best for the Poser community in the long run. We basically "licensed" DAZ meshes for Poser since the time Vicky 1 was released. We might as well finally be honest to ourselves and make the deal official. BTW, for quite some time Poser had both its "native" Poser 4 renderer as well the "licensed" Firefly renderer working side by side. So, adding the ability to fully host "triax" rigged figures in .duf format doesnt mean all natively rigged figures in .cr2 format will stop working." And it's even more disgraceful that one man (for the most part) was able to do a better job than a huge (by comparison) company. If Project E gains traction, Smith Micro will reap all the benefits without lifting a finger.

    Great post. Interesting as there was a thread not too far back on Rendo from someone else that posted about crap products in the marketplace. Thread got shut down though before I put my 2 cents in. I've seen and even bought some of those products. Usually it's bad textures and/or shaders, I've gotten them without proper bump maps. What makes it pretty sad is computer and console hardware has come so far that console and computer games will give you better graphics real time. Especially if you poke your head outside the Poser world, you'll see some graphics that are light years ahead.

    And I just stumbled on a thread on the Daz forums, which confirms what I've been seeing that in general the Daz products seem to be of better quality. The thread was about someone trying to break into being a PA. The interesting bits were from an established artist, whom said Daz is very selective and if they don't like your renders they won't even open your zip files. And even as an established artist there, he'll get rejections.

    I'll still buy some of those ugly duckling scenes, if I like the artist's vision and the geometry is there - I can fix textures and shaders. I actually enjoy that a bit, to take the ugly duckling and turn it into a swan. I'll have to post some scenes I've been tweaking as well. :D



  • @Gator762: Believe you me, I'm not blind how superior V7 is compared with V4.

    Just give it time and fixes will be out for it…or give it your best work for now. I try fitting V4 shoes to G2F and some just don't like the new figure. Even if their shape conforms, I have to turn off limits because they tend to hover a few inches below or off her feet. If I try to start with limits off, though, then they stay shapen to V4 and never work. I would imagine your troubles are similar but probably worse because as time goes on support diminishes.

    Thankfully for the valentine's sale I got me an Iray converter for generation 4. :)

    @'thehawkman':

    Well after the mess that is Pauline what do you expect? She looks decent with Darkseal's Pauline plus but the default figure is a disaster. Someone on Renderosity put it best: "Shane, don't you think that after 13 years of botched figures there is a pattern emerging? The folks at SM can't model or rig for sht.

    Then there's the problem. Not unlike some vidya companies, I notice. Just throwing stuff out there. While I realize part of learning to 3D at all is to get acquainted with the ugly, hard, and boring aspects…trial by fire doesn't always work. Sure it does work to find exceptional and gifted folks but for hobbyists? For casual fans? Not so good.

    For example although there's plausible deniability with Star Wars KOTOR2: The Sith Lords (and BTW the fan modding community has done a splendid job), Obsidian has had repeated slip-ups. I know there's a lot more examples out there, and probably worse but I do read the trades enough to know the age of DLC has sort of ushered in releasing incomplete products as somehow passable.

    You are honest about where it all is and how we've gotten here, yet you remain a sober judge and well grounded when it comes to Daz. :) You know something, I got the impression you had a high quality mark personality type, most cynics do and yet don't expect a whole lot. I'm a realist and sometimes a cynic, other times I tend to get more exercised and passionate.

    I must confess to being one of these idiot hobbyists, but the time I have spent has shown me contrasts and enough changes over time that now I think I can pick out shit from decent. I may not have great taste as an artist but aftter having tried working with generation 3 freebies and comparing it to Generations 4, 5, and 6 I can at least tell what isn't worth even touching.

    I don't honestly see how things could be any different than how you outlined. The only other alternative to selling out or some miracle, is Poser essentially turning into another XNALara/XPS. The difference is that these were Microsoft's experiments trying to get people to create freebie indie games as a way of farming potential talent. I can outline reasons this went wrong but I guarantee part of it is end users were more often just casual users and not really suited to produce like a profession. A means created with a gap of appreciation between an end product and the way there with all its work.

    And it's even more disgraceful that one man (for the most part) was able to do a better job than a huge (by comparison) company. If Project E gains traction, Smith Micro will reap all the benefits without lifting a finger.

    …Yeah, especially that last part. Hints at a long festering lack of priority given to its product. Hard to respect a company when someone outside of it is the one responsible for making it work.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    I hate to say it but I think the only way Poser might get the upper hand is either making more of its own figures better in the broader market, or partnering up with erogenesis in this market. Or both. –And maybe fix some of these other little issues plaguing it on renders while they're at it. Pixar and vidya development were smart, now let's see SM pour some $$$ into R&D and into fixing its existing problems. I'm saying this as someone who really does want to see them survive inot the future and keep things competitive.

    Has anyone also noticed how much Renderosity is starting to really supply Genesis 3 items? Many of the same vendors as the Daz store too. This is probably another reason the market is beginning to visibly shift.

    Well after the mess that is Pauline what do you expect? She looks decent with Darkseal's Pauline plus but the default figure is a disaster. Someone on Renderosity put it best: "Shane, don't you think that after 13 years of botched figures there is a pattern emerging? The folks at SM can't model or rig for sht. Sorry. And they are too stingy to hire professional talent. Sorry. They throw stuff out in the hopes that "the community" will fix it. Which actually worked somehow in the past, but mostly because the average Poser hobbyist can't spot professional work even if it bites him in the a*. But DAZ went serious a couple af years ago, sinking a lot of money into figure development, and now the lack of quality of Poser content becomes obvious even to the most ignorant Poser users. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against "hobbyist" content, not even in the marketpkace. (Although a lot of the stuff sold really keeps me wondering what the modeller and especially his customers were thinking) But when it comes to figures, I don't give an inch. These are the main tools of the program, and without proper, anatomical "correct" humans, we could just as well all stayed with Poser 4 and Posette. Or stay with V4 and a few "fixes" forever. As for professional modellers, who in his right mind would want to work for Poser, given the profit margins you can achieve here ? Unless he is paid in advance ? If someone is willing to pay for a truly professionaly made "exclusive Poser" mesh, I'm all for it. But you still need all the mapping, the textures, the morphs and the clothing getting made and the testing and the marketing. This takes $$$ and can't be done by a group of bright eyed volunteers. Simply not worth the effort given how big we (Everyone of us, including SM) let DAZ' monopoly grow. Sorry, SM was asleep behind the wheel and they've got a rude awakening. So, yes, I'm all for SM "selling out" to DAZ. It would immediately re-unite the communities and give merchants the ability to cater to both systems again without having to make compromises. I think that would be the best for the Poser community in the long run. We basically "licensed" DAZ meshes for Poser since the time Vicky 1 was released. We might as well finally be honest to ourselves and make the deal official. BTW, for quite some time Poser had both its "native" Poser 4 renderer as well the "licensed" Firefly renderer working side by side. So, adding the ability to fully host "triax" rigged figures in .duf format doesnt mean all natively rigged figures in .cr2 format will stop working." And it's even more disgraceful that one man (for the most part) was able to do a better job than a huge (by comparison) company. If Project E gains traction, Smith Micro will reap all the benefits without lifting a finger.



  • Yeah I noticed. As you said, even lots of new stuff on Rendo is Genesis 3. That's why I've finally switched from V4. A few reasons actually. More V7 support, bending & detail issues with V4, and Octane has been giving me problems, prompting me to try Daz and Iray. The Genesis 3 sale cinched it (got Victoria 7 Pro for 18 something bucks).

    On the compatibility, trouble is there's grey area for a simple yes/no. I'd say for Pretty 3D's My Valentine works, as the issues were pretty minor. If you're after an absolute yes/no, I'd say yes. I was able to use it along with it's morphs. Sample you can see in my post in the Creative Works. http://affect3d.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4976

    The motokamishii's was a much darker grey. I'm sure the issue could be straightened out, but is going to require some work.



  • Well, that's good you are finding out specifics, and while I originally only thought of this as a list thread, I very much welcome specific issues on specific items for anyone who explores this. By all means this a public thread of gathering intel. The more meaningful input, the better.

    I hate to say it but I think the only way Poser might get the upper hand is either making more of its own figures better in the broader market, or partnering up with erogenesis in this market. Or both. –And maybe fix some of these other little issues plaguing it on renders while they're at it. Pixar and vidya development were smart, now let's see SM pour some $$$ into R&D and into fixing its existing problems. I'm saying this as someone who really does want to see them survive inot the future and keep things competitive.

    I digress.

    @Gator762:

    Ran into a minor incompatibility issue this weekend. The My Valentine outfit by Pretty 3D. The tassel and skirt controls didn't work. They are the balls or boxes that allow you to move the clothing based on gravity or the pose. Also the automatic masking MATs didn't work, no big deal there just have to edit the opacity manually. Other than that, it worked fine.

    You know, I should probably make another list, but IMO you can count on Pretty3D's renderosity items being incompatible with Daz and having these probable issues. So tentatively, here, we can count in any of pretty3d's 'rosity items.

    Has anyone also noticed how much Renderosity is starting to really supply Genesis 3 items? Many of the same vendors as the Daz store too. This is probably another reason the market is beginning to visibly shift.



  • Ran into a minor incompatibility issue this weekend. The My Valentine outfit by Pretty 3D. The tassel and skirt controls didn't work. They are the balls or boxes that allow you to move the clothing based on gravity or the pose. Also the automatic masking MATs didn't work, no big deal there just have to edit the opacity manually. Other than that, it worked fine.



  • OK, I've been busy installing my stuff into Daz. Pretty tedious, as I didn't back up the HDD my stuff was stored on and I have to re-download most of it. I have my Poser library backed up, but it could really use some re-org and thinning the herd too.

    Specifically:
    Late Nights at Club 09 works, although the textures needed work. It's an older set anyways, I'd expect re-texturing or at least the shaders for a PBR. Only real thing that didn't seem to work is tiling values didn't come over, so things tiled are just 1x1 making some weird looking textures - like the carpet if you know what I mean. I'll have to post some shots as I've spent hours updating it to Iray and I think it's looking good.
    Shoot 19 & 20 School Days and School Nights works, tested on Genesis 3 with auto-fit.
    Hongyu's Bikinis 1-3 all work.
    LF's Le Petit Bikini works
    The Hottie works
    Crazy Belle III works
    Few others I've tested I don't remember

    Most notable is Motokami Ya's (aka motokamishi). The morphs worked, but the texturing didn't cover the whole gun (missing the frame). However the material was you're stuck with, and in the case of the AGM19 the bump messed up the slide. I also have 3 of his 45's (CGV45?) There's no separate material zone you can edit. But it's set up weird - the OBJ is the frame of the guns. The slide I dunno where it's coming from. I didn't see the OBJ file in the directory, or the CR2 file. Blender doesn't see it, until I exported it from Daz. Then I get all the parts, but importing back in loses the morphs and again no separate material zones (all the parts merged together into the import). It can be done I think nicely, but will take some time in Blender or the like defining the material zones or OBJ parts (parenting?) and probably lose the morphs.

    Other thing that sucks for Genesis 3 specifically are the shoes. Autofit kills heels, and I tried SickleYield's method but it didn't work for me. Damn. I have probably a half dozen or so heels I'd really like to pull over to G3F as there isn't anything like them available yet for G3F. There's another more involved method I have to try, it was along the lines of adjusting it, exporting to OBJ, importing it back in and transferring morphs. Haven't had the time to try that yet.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'SinCyprine':

    i have a few of the items that you list and they work fine in daz.
    you just need to tweek the material - if not recreate them, but everything you need is included.

    btw, since i use octane plug-in for daz, i do recreate almost all my material, be it older content for poser or the newer iray sets (which still come a 3delight version but for how long).

    my point being, dont shy away from a product you fancy: with some adjusting, it will work fine with your software of choice.

    I was aware most solid things could work but need "optimization" of textures and that. Some of the scenes I had planned to do just that.

    What I am curious about, though, are the straight-up incompatible items. For example, stuff not tested nor recommended for Daz because a) its interface/dials aren't coded to anything but Poser and b) morphs that just won't work because they aren't recognized (data can't be "seen") by Daz?

    I think it's dynamic clothes and Poser dynamic hair that don't work. And also some of the older hair by Outoftouch that use Python for mixing colors don't work (edit: I mean the color mixing won't work). In fact items that use Python may not work in DAZ.



  • @'Gator762':

    Sounds like you haven't bought much in the way for V4 content?

    Not from 'rosity. However from Daz's store I do have (I think) all the stuff of pro pack except the HD textures and the "elite" bundle.

    I'd be weighing heavily on that first - good thing is there's tons of stuff for her, bad news is that she's an old model out there and even with a bunch of those fixes it still isn't great compared to Genesis 2 and 3. For example, her legs. She's OK when she doesn't bend much, but in bends the legs look a bit off and the ankles too. You'll get V4 really cheap, maybe even free now but you're going to spend a lot on all the fixes which I see as must-haves.

    I have been made aware of much of that, yes. In Daz I have poke through issues more with V4.2 than others, though not to the extent you had posted about in the Poser 11 thread. I actually do have some fixes though not all. As you might well guess for Daz at least I will attempt to fit clothing to G2F. For Poser I'm basically looking at P10 for the minimalist approach that still allows a morph brush Versus PPro '14 at the sacrifice of foregoing many crafts and vehicles that cause it to crash. Coding in Blender Cycles or looking at CPU for renders. Your testimonial did shoot Octane full of holes for me: If it nearly doubles the PITA factor, that shits all over the reasons to get it.

    For non-porn usage I was rather curious about Balana hair for a character since it had morphs but it's poser only. Among several others.

    Like I said, I will have to purge the list down to what I have definitive wants and needs for. Unless vendors go bat shit and start making their content unavailable in droves, this stuff will be there if I ever change my mind.



  • Great post. Like SinCyprine I also have a number that's on your list, and I hope they are compatible with D|S. For example I have a bunch of AJ's sets which render well with Octane, and most of motokamishii's modern weapons. I certainly hope the weapons work!

    Sounds like you haven't bought much in the way for V4 content? I'd be weighing heavily on that first - good thing is there's tons of stuff for her, bad news is that she's an old model out there and even with a bunch of those fixes it still isn't great compared to Genesis 2 and 3. For example, her legs. She's OK when she doesn't bend much, but in bends the legs look a bit off and the ankles too. You'll get V4 really cheap, maybe even free now but you're going to spend a lot on all the fixes which I see as must-haves.

    But not to derail this into a V4 vs Genesis thread, I'll have to get back on the compatibility since it's a great idea to have a thread on it. :)



  • @'SinCyprine':

    i have a few of the items that you list and they work fine in daz.
    you just need to tweek the material - if not recreate them, but everything you need is included.

    btw, since i use octane plug-in for daz, i do recreate almost all my material, be it older content for poser or the newer iray sets (which still come a 3delight version but for how long).

    my point being, dont shy away from a product you fancy: with some adjusting, it will work fine with your software of choice.

    I was aware most solid things could work but need "optimization" of textures and that. Some of the scenes I had planned to do just that.

    What I am curious about, though, are the straight-up incompatible items. For example, stuff not tested nor recommended for Daz because a) its interface/dials aren't coded to anything but Poser and b) morphs that just won't work because they aren't recognized (data can't be "seen") by Daz?



  • i have a few of the items that you list and they work fine in daz.
    you just need to tweek the material - if not recreate them, but everything you need is included.

    btw, since i use octane plug-in for daz, i do recreate almost all my material, be it older content for poser or the newer iray sets (which still come a 3delight version but for how long).

    my point being, dont shy away from a product you fancy: with some adjusting, it will work fine with your software of choice.


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