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  • @'rikolo':

    Genesis 2 figures run sluggish in Poser because of the DSON plugin trying to run the dynamic loading morphs and SubD in real-time like Daz Studio. You have to go into Scripts<dson support="">SubD>Set SubDivision OFF and speed improves greatly.</dson>



  • hi pupp,
    i tried to do anything with poser but i couldnt get anything with it.i cant morph any character. please help



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'thehawkman':

    :@ Great.

    Well, it would still have cost you a lot to upgrade. There was a lot complaint about how expensive it was to upgrade from 2014.



  • @'thehawkman':

    Well, before the launch of Poser 11 they had a sale where you could get Pro for USD 80 if I remember correctly. But obviously, you missed that.

    :@ Great.

    To quote Erogenesis, "yeah for fine modelling you definitely need zBrush or perhaps mudbox. " The tutorials on renderosity clearly state that Poser is a content manipulation program not a content creation program. You can do rigging though. As far as I understand, that's what the Setup room is for.

    Sounds like what gmax does for modding, minus hassle of import/export/etc. (or plus the convenience if you prefer the half full analogy). I'm not positive but I think gmax can also sculpt but it isn't fine tuned being essentially an older 3dmax stripped down and no render.

    At this point I'm beginning to wonder about Hexagon but would not be surprised if it wasn't much better…

    @'Gator762':

    IMHO, can't escape messing with lighting. That's universal to any render engine. Sometimes you get a scene with light presets (or other presets of your own or elsewhere) and get results you're happy with, sometimes not. I probably spend more time there for a few reasons - I'm picky and I'm not an expert.

    No I understand that as a general thing. Forgive me if I was too vague. I meant specifically in context of what you said here:

    Now that Poser has gone to the Cycles PBR, it's a moot point but it also had funky lighting issues where it would often be splotchy in corners, or weird bright illumination/reflection in some corners. There are tricks to alleviate it, but then you're doing things IMHO to fix stuff you shouldn't have to do.

    Sort of sounds like troubleshooting a problematic circuit that was home built: If, after initially powering up a virgin circuit, problems persist after double and triple checking then it might be better to start over since it would take less time and possibly less effort.

    I realize this is a whole different animal from render lighting but troubleshooting is about common sense and deductive reasoning. Logically eliminating variables of what causes what.

    But as you say, moot point.

    Can't speak to tweaking with Cycle's textures, as I don't have it (P Pro 2014). Shouldn't have to mess with reflections on 11 since Cycles is a PBR, should be able to plug in real values (or best guesses ;) ) and not fake reflection maps.

    Wouldn't one be able to export a scene or code in another render engine?

    Yeah, I typically won't spend over $5 on a pose set too, since that's stuff I can do. But if I see a bunch I like in the set, I'll buy it as it does save time. Not to mention I have to tweak them like 95% of the time. Maybe it's the character's morphs, or they are a bit sloppy on details like collisions. And a big peeve of mine with pose sets is when they don't use limits. I understand turning limits off when you have to go an extra degree or two, but some have gotten really liberal there. Load it up, think it looks kinda weird, turn limits back on and whoa!

    Actually I completely agree with you here, and for many of the same reasons. It's just priority with $$$. Plus there are only so many generic poses a biped can make until sets start becoming redundant. Par for the course with Daz my friend; Poser is a little nicer on manually posing. Now we're getting into MY experience where I spent my time. You might look at the latest page on hzr's thread. I could explain it here but it would just be quicker if you went over and read it for yourself.

    I spend time here cuz the machines I've been using are generic office machines limited to 32 bit OS and so can't offer much at all for rendering. Freeze-up due to straining system resources is common. My troubles with this may soon be over, though.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'Gator762':

    No idea why it's more stable for Poser.

    Yeah that's why I think the industry going toward PBRs. Apply universal real-world lighting and shader values and get results that are pretty close if not spot on… Also transportable to different engines without drastic tweaking required. I've seen some crazy accurate renders researching shader values that are indistinguishable from photos.

    Now that Poser has gone to the Cycles PBR, it's a moot point but it also had funky lighting issues where it would often be splotchy in corners, or weird bright illumination/reflection in some corners. There are tricks to alleviate it, but then you're doing things IMHO to fix stuff you shouldn't have to do.

    So instead of having to tweak textures, reflections, and the like, you have to tweak lighting instead? That's just as much of a pain…Well, it can be. Usually is because luck isn't with most folks, and most folks haven't prepared for this anyhow.

    @'Gator762':

    Gone since maybe June? Around that time. I bought a few things, Prime was a buck or two cheaper than the sale price. A character for 6 or 7 bucks, and a scene for $5 (although it looks older). I took a look through my wishlist, some things $3.50 like some props and poses, rest seems to range from $5-8.

    Then if I want something I'm going to have to REALLY want it.

    Too late on the Daz warning. I bought things in the past here and there, not too much though. I notice lately it's been these gateway sales, buy new item X and get these items for XX off. And I hear ya on the pro packages!

    Well, I wouldn't have mentioned the latter since it's obvious, but yeah. They changed to this as their SOP about a year ago, so bye-bye super sales (for the most part). It's a creeping incrementalism most folks with lots of $$$ to spend aren't going to care much about.

    BTW, I just got a bunch of Ironman stuff. The sale said buy the new item, get 45% off her products along with other artists, but then I noticed from my cart it was more like 65% off or so… So more stuff went in the cart! Dangit. ;)

    I find that poses alone are least worth buying, but i13 in particular goes to special efforts to include stuff and versatility on top of quality and accuracy of poses. Typically I don't bite unless I see 60% off at least.

    I digress: it's still a split on P10 vs PPro2014. Cost will decrease with time. Fitting room is a godsend for content creators but there's otherwise little difference.

    So content creation, is that developing clothes, hair, morphs, props and things of that sort? What are Poser's limitations for this sort of thing?

    Poser 10 or Pro 2014? I'd think hard about that. My experience is that it's hard to get really good results out of the built in FireFly renderer. Which means an external renderer like Octane. The more I'm using Studio, the more I'm liking it. Working with shaders, the workflow is getting a lot faster for me, especially now that I learned you can switch the viewports to Iray. It's awesome being able to tweak and see the results almost real time.

    IMHO, can't escape messing with lighting. That's universal to any render engine. Sometimes you get a scene with light presets (or other presets of your own or elsewhere) and get results you're happy with, sometimes not. I probably spend more time there for a few reasons - I'm picky and I'm not an expert.

    Can't speak to tweaking with Cycle's textures, as I don't have it (P Pro 2014). Shouldn't have to mess with reflections on 11 since Cycles is a PBR, should be able to plug in real values (or best guesses ;) ) and not fake reflection maps.

    Yeah, I typically won't spend over $5 on a pose set too, since that's stuff I can do. But if I see a bunch I like in the set, I'll buy it as it does save time. Not to mention I have to tweak them like 95% of the time. Maybe it's the character's morphs, or they are a bit sloppy on details like collisions. And a big peeve of mine with pose sets is when they don't use limits. I understand turning limits off when you have to go an extra degree or two, but some have gotten really liberal there. Load it up, think it looks kinda weird, turn limits back on and whoa!



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'thehawkman':

    And the new figures aren't going to work in Poser 2014, I think. Someone on RuntimeDNA said that trying to load Pauline in 2014 caused it to crash.

    http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?103343-Backwards-compatability-of-textures

    Just hit a problem, lost a days work. If you set up textures to work in both superfly and firefly and save those, then open the scene in PP2014, all the superfly data is lost if you then re-save the scene (in PP2014). It doesn't ignore the superfly data, it deletes it. If you then try to open it again in PP11, you're back to square one with NO superfly textures. Given that we can't save texture sets for entire scenes (can we?), it makes cross compatibility a real problem. If, as a vendor, you make textures that work in both render engines, a customer buys said product and applies those textures in PP2014, they'll work but will delete the superfly stuff. If that buyer then upgrades, they will have to reapply the textures to EVERY item in the scene, or rebuild the scene from scratch. Rather than create SR's for legacy Poser versions, perhaps a way to save textures for an entire scene would be a work around?

    Aside the additional costs incurred and other uncertainties from branching out to other figures, tempting as it may be, this is another reason I am reticent about other figures in general.

    Hence I would spam saves for each separate render type. Now that I know which is given priority (as if one couldn't guess it would be the native render program), it's an uncertainty resolved at least.

    This is beginning to make me nervous. I hate the cult Daz is becoming and its larger implication on monopolizing the market.

    However, I must be honest: content alone will not ultimately save Poser in the long run. At best hold off the inevitable if things keep on as they are. These little problems are threatening to make Poser extinct before too long. It'll take a few more years at this rate, but as new users come in their expectations on the amount of work to be done (or lack thereof) are formed based on what is most immediately visible and easiest to start. It's sort of like I'm watching Sega VS Nintendo all over again in the handheld console market back in the early 90s.

    I digress: it's still a split on P10 vs PPro2014. Cost will decrease with time. Fitting room is a godsend for content creators but there's otherwise little difference.

    So content creation, is that developing clothes, hair, morphs, props and things of that sort? What are Poser's limitations for this sort of thing?

    Well, before the launch of Poser 11 they had a sale where you could get Pro for USD 80 if I remember correctly. But obviously, you missed that. To quote Erogenesis, "yeah for fine modelling you definitely need zBrush or perhaps mudbox. " The tutorials on renderosity clearly state that Poser is a content manipulation program not a content creation program. You can do rigging though. As far as I understand, that's what the Setup room is for.



  • @'Gator762':

    No idea why it's more stable for Poser.

    Yeah that's why I think the industry going toward PBRs. Apply universal real-world lighting and shader values and get results that are pretty close if not spot on… Also transportable to different engines without drastic tweaking required. I've seen some crazy accurate renders researching shader values that are indistinguishable from photos.

    Now that Poser has gone to the Cycles PBR, it's a moot point but it also had funky lighting issues where it would often be splotchy in corners, or weird bright illumination/reflection in some corners. There are tricks to alleviate it, but then you're doing things IMHO to fix stuff you shouldn't have to do.

    So instead of having to tweak textures, reflections, and the like, you have to tweak lighting instead? That's just as much of a pain…Well, it can be. Usually is because luck isn't with most folks, and most folks haven't prepared for this anyhow.

    @'Gator762':

    Gone since maybe June? Around that time. I bought a few things, Prime was a buck or two cheaper than the sale price. A character for 6 or 7 bucks, and a scene for $5 (although it looks older). I took a look through my wishlist, some things $3.50 like some props and poses, rest seems to range from $5-8.

    Then if I want something I'm going to have to REALLY want it.

    Too late on the Daz warning. I bought things in the past here and there, not too much though. I notice lately it's been these gateway sales, buy new item X and get these items for XX off. And I hear ya on the pro packages!

    Well, I wouldn't have mentioned the latter since it's obvious, but yeah. They changed to this as their SOP about a year ago, so bye-bye super sales (for the most part). It's a creeping incrementalism most folks with lots of $$$ to spend aren't going to care much about.

    BTW, I just got a bunch of Ironman stuff. The sale said buy the new item, get 45% off her products along with other artists, but then I noticed from my cart it was more like 65% off or so… So more stuff went in the cart! Dangit. ;)

    I find that poses alone are least worth buying, but i13 in particular goes to special efforts to include stuff and versatility on top of quality and accuracy of poses. Typically I don't bite unless I see 60% off at least.

    @'thehawkman':

    And the new figures aren't going to work in Poser 2014, I think. Someone on RuntimeDNA said that trying to load Pauline in 2014 caused it to crash.

    http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?103343-Backwards-compatability-of-textures

    Just hit a problem, lost a days work. If you set up textures to work in both superfly and firefly and save those, then open the scene in PP2014, all the superfly data is lost if you then re-save the scene (in PP2014). It doesn't ignore the superfly data, it deletes it. If you then try to open it again in PP11, you're back to square one with NO superfly textures. Given that we can't save texture sets for entire scenes (can we?), it makes cross compatibility a real problem. If, as a vendor, you make textures that work in both render engines, a customer buys said product and applies those textures in PP2014, they'll work but will delete the superfly stuff. If that buyer then upgrades, they will have to reapply the textures to EVERY item in the scene, or rebuild the scene from scratch. Rather than create SR's for legacy Poser versions, perhaps a way to save textures for an entire scene would be a work around?

    Aside the additional costs incurred and other uncertainties from branching out to other figures, tempting as it may be, this is another reason I am reticent about other figures in general.

    Hence I would spam saves for each separate render type. Now that I know which is given priority (as if one couldn't guess it would be the native render program), it's an uncertainty resolved at least.

    This is beginning to make me nervous. I hate the cult Daz is becoming and its larger implication on monopolizing the market.

    However, I must be honest: content alone will not ultimately save Poser in the long run. At best hold off the inevitable if things keep on as they are. These little problems are threatening to make Poser extinct before too long. It'll take a few more years at this rate, but as new users come in their expectations on the amount of work to be done (or lack thereof) are formed based on what is most immediately visible and easiest to start. It's sort of like I'm watching Sega VS Nintendo all over again in the handheld console market back in the early 90s.

    I digress: it's still a split on P10 vs PPro2014. Cost will decrease with time. Fitting room is a godsend for content creators but there's otherwise little difference.

    So content creation, is that developing clothes, hair, morphs, props and things of that sort? What are Poser's limitations for this sort of thing?



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    Hm. And now I have comparisons of past products.
    http://my.smithmicro.com/docs/poser/PPGameDev-P10-PP2014-P10-Debut-Feature-Comparison-Matrix.pdf
    So either I go for a PRO edition if I want to use my 980ti with it, or I look at upgrading my other hardware to use CPU renders of the others. Oy.

    I'd heard P10/PPro2014 onward did something to make the figures work differently, like you can't carry over work from previous editions or something? (I've been looking this up but can't find it.) Not that this necessarily would be a problem for me starting out but I just wonder at how this might affect content compatibility, just for my info possibly into the future.

    And the new figures aren't going to work in Poser 2014, I think. Someone on RuntimeDNA said that trying to load Pauline in 2014 caused it to crash.

    http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?103343-Backwards-compatability-of-textures

    Just hit a problem, lost a days work. If you set up textures to work in both superfly and firefly and save those, then open the scene in PP2014, all the superfly data is lost if you then re-save the scene (in PP2014). It doesn't ignore the superfly data, it deletes it. If you then try to open it again in PP11, you're back to square one with NO superfly textures. Given that we can't save texture sets for entire scenes (can we?), it makes cross compatibility a real problem. If, as a vendor, you make textures that work in both render engines, a customer buys said product and applies those textures in PP2014, they'll work but will delete the superfly stuff. If that buyer then upgrades, they will have to reapply the textures to EVERY item in the scene, or rebuild the scene from scratch. Rather than create SR's for legacy Poser versions, perhaps a way to save textures for an entire scene would be a work around?



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    Oh. :( That's all gone now? Must have been recent. In that case thanks fer the heads up. Some items are still just $3.50 but this looks like it's hit or miss now based on timing. My wishlist still needs pruning but it's slowly going down from having had nearly 1400 items on it.

    The Daz wishlist… my magical limit is just north of 4200 items--go much over 6000 and they dump it. I'm less apprehensive about this because it doesn't have an assuming subtotal looming over you.

    The things I might caution you on Daz's store is that

    1. it's SO easy to get sucked into overspending when they make deals of 70% or more off. And they also offer you tempting deals on pro packages if you already spent a certain amount the week or month prior. It really fucks with you if you have set spending limits. However these are very much hit or miss.

    2. they save the really sweet deals for enormous spenders. Otherwise you're playing the waiting game. They have unannounced special deals, but these require you to either have already spent X amount in store the previous day/week/month/etc. or to have purchased specific things already.

    3. typically great deals and the really wanted content are mismatched, and usually these combinations come and go in the blink of an eye.

    I'm sure their PC+ club negates some of this, but the reason I hesitate is because you have a limited timetable and better be willing to jam in your spending to make the most of it. Their exclusive free stuff is how it pays for itself partially but you need to spend to save.

    Not necessarily bad, but for people like myself who impose spending limits in order to not be in debt up to my eyeballs it only drives up anxiety.

    Gone since maybe June? Around that time. I bought a few things, Prime was a buck or two cheaper than the sale price. A character for 6 or 7 bucks, and a scene for $5 (although it looks older). I took a look through my wishlist, some things $3.50 like some props and poses, rest seems to range from $5-8.

    Too late on the Daz warning. I bought things in the past here and there, not too much though. I notice lately it's been these gateway sales, buy new item X and get these items for XX off. And I hear ya on the pro packages!

    BTW, I just got a bunch of Ironman stuff. The sale said buy the new item, get 45% off her products along with other artists, but then I noticed from my cart it was more like 65% off or so… So more stuff went in the cart! Dangit. ;)



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'Gator762':

    LOL no. Had to google it. I've been meaning to pick up GTA V. :blush:

    Scoo-ter-bro-ther!

    Well, yeah kinda I suppose. The results with Octane are really good, and as a newbie to 3D I found working with Octane's textures pretty easy to do. With Poser's older engine, Firefly, you can get good results with it but it seems like you have to be a wizard to do so. Lots of these tricks to get it to do what an unbiased renderer does. The bonus of course is quicker render times, but as a newbie I found it hard to tweak things to get those good results. With Octane, an unbiased renderer I was able to set a few material settings as I would expect in real life (like glossyness, surface smoothness) and place lights where you would in real life and get results that I pretty much expected.

    But there is a con in your workflow adding new scenes. They get pulled over to defaults as Octane can't interpret many settings. Material textures and bump maps come over, but typically glossiness and surface smoothness don't. So I mess with that every new scene. Of course once you've tweaked it you can save it, so you don't have to do it over again. RedSpec has great skin making that easy. But another con with Octane is that I've read it's not very stable with Daz Studio if you plan on using it for both.

    Yeah, I've heard that from a number of people. Why is it unstable for Daz but not Poser I wonder?

    I have a universal guide on lighting and stuff regardless what program one uses. Suppose surface matching has to be done for each program but yeah I find it rather annoying you have to tweak it for every little change you make.

    No idea why it's more stable for Poser.

    Yeah that's why I think the industry going toward PBRs. Apply universal real-world lighting and shader values and get results that are pretty close if not spot on… Also transportable to different engines without drastic tweaking required. I've seen some crazy accurate renders researching shader values that are indistinguishable from photos.

    Now that Poser has gone to the Cycles PBR, it's a moot point but it also had funky lighting issues where it would often be splotchy in corners, or weird bright illumination/reflection in some corners. There are tricks to alleviate it, but then you're doing things IMHO to fix stuff you shouldn't have to do.



  • @'Gator762':

    LOL no. Had to google it. I've been meaning to pick up GTA V. :blush:

    Scoo-ter-bro-ther!

    Well, yeah kinda I suppose. The results with Octane are really good, and as a newbie to 3D I found working with Octane's textures pretty easy to do. With Poser's older engine, Firefly, you can get good results with it but it seems like you have to be a wizard to do so. Lots of these tricks to get it to do what an unbiased renderer does. The bonus of course is quicker render times, but as a newbie I found it hard to tweak things to get those good results. With Octane, an unbiased renderer I was able to set a few material settings as I would expect in real life (like glossyness, surface smoothness) and place lights where you would in real life and get results that I pretty much expected.

    But there is a con in your workflow adding new scenes. They get pulled over to defaults as Octane can't interpret many settings. Material textures and bump maps come over, but typically glossiness and surface smoothness don't. So I mess with that every new scene. Of course once you've tweaked it you can save it, so you don't have to do it over again. RedSpec has great skin making that easy. But another con with Octane is that I've read it's not very stable with Daz Studio if you plan on using it for both.

    Yeah, I've heard that from a number of people. Why is it unstable for Daz but not Poser I wonder?

    I have a universal guide on lighting and stuff regardless what program one uses. Suppose surface matching has to be done for each program but yeah I find it rather annoying you have to tweak it for every little change you make.

    There are other physical render programs. Lux may be free but it's slow. Reality uses Luxrender.
    There's paid solutions of these which were around before Octane decided to go physical based but I have no intel on these. They are mentioned in my "on making hair" thread and I reposted in a more recent thread.

    @'Gator762':

    No issues using older stuff.

    How about genesis onward? Nearly that stuff only says 4.9 now. :(

    Back up your library though, IIRC a few people on the Daz forums had problems. On the other hand, worked OK for probably most (usually most people only say anything when it doesn't work).

    Knowing what I do now, I can probably guess why based on my own troubles.

    @'Gator762':

    It's not nearly as good. :dodgy:

    Used to be all Prime items were $3.50. After the change, they apparently had problems the Prime price was often higher than the sale price. So LOTS of pissed of Prime members.

    It's better but not that great. It's cheaper Prime but not like the old $3.50 days. I'll have to check more, I've bought a few things. Now that I have Genesis 3 I'm buying stuff again. Also my Prime membership expires in a month or two, so it's time to use it up. After getting shafted on the change I doubt I'll ever buy it again. PC+ seems to be a better deal.

    Oh. :( That's all gone now? Must have been recent. In that case thanks fer the heads up. Some items are still just $3.50 but this looks like it's hit or miss now based on timing. My wishlist still needs pruning but it's slowly going down from having had nearly 1400 items on it.

    The Daz wishlist… my magical limit is just north of 4200 items--go much over 6000 and they dump it. I'm less apprehensive about this because it doesn't have an assuming subtotal looming over you.

    The things I might caution you on Daz's store is that

    1. it's SO easy to get sucked into overspending when they make deals of 70% or more off. And they also offer you tempting deals on pro packages if you already spent a certain amount the week or month prior. It really fucks with you if you have set spending limits. However these are very much hit or miss.

    2. they save the really sweet deals for enormous spenders. Otherwise you're playing the waiting game. They have unannounced special deals, but these require you to either have already spent X amount in store the previous day/week/month/etc. or to have purchased specific things already.

    3. typically great deals and the really wanted content are mismatched, and usually these combinations come and go in the blink of an eye.

    I'm sure their PC+ club negates some of this, but the reason I hesitate is because you have a limited timetable and better be willing to jam in your spending to make the most of it. Their exclusive free stuff is how it pays for itself partially but you need to spend to save.

    Not necessarily bad, but for people like myself who impose spending limits in order to not be in debt up to my eyeballs it only drives up anxiety.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    I dunno if you follow Rendo, I do there and they changed the Prime program. Pissed me off and many others too.

    Must be why its membership is only $30/yr now. Long as it gets an appreciable discount I guess…

    It's not nearly as good. :dodgy:

    Used to be all Prime items were $3.50. After the change, they apparently had problems the Prime price was often higher than the sale price. So LOTS of pissed of Prime members.

    It's better but not that great. It's cheaper Prime but not like the old $3.50 days. I'll have to check more, I've bought a few things. Now that I have Genesis 3 I'm buying stuff again. Also my Prime membership expires in a month or two, so it's time to use it up. After getting shafted on the change I doubt I'll ever buy it again. PC+ seems to be a better deal.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    IF it turns out I can't use my stuff I already own in 4.8 anymore, I'm going to be SO pissed. I mean I'm already irritated, but this is borderline fascist.

    No issues using older stuff.

    Back up your library though, IIRC a few people on the Daz forums had problems. On the other hand, worked OK for probably most (usually most people only say anything when it doesn't work).



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'Gator762':

    Ahh yeah, those are like classic stripper heels, the heels portion clear plastic.
    I'd think that should be very easy to do in Iray (or Octane). Iray has a bunch of glass shaders free I think, I also bought some from PC+ for $2 or $3. Start with glass and adjust probably the IOR.

    Okay. I thought it might not be too hard.

    Yeah, pretty easy actually.

    Didn't get the reference I see. :)

    LOL no. Had to google it. I've been meaning to pick up GTA V. :blush:

    So this shoots Octane full of holes, and solidifies the direction of Blender Cycles more for me now. Now I wonder which Poser version has a morph brush that I could buy cheaper, and just code in for rendering in Blender Cycles with that remedy another forumite told me about here.

    Well, yeah kinda I suppose. The results with Octane are really good, and as a newbie to 3D I found working with Octane's textures pretty easy to do. With Poser's older engine, Firefly, you can get good results with it but it seems like you have to be a wizard to do so. Lots of these tricks to get it to do what an unbiased renderer does. The bonus of course is quicker render times, but as a newbie I found it hard to tweak things to get those good results. With Octane, an unbiased renderer I was able to set a few material settings as I would expect in real life (like glossyness, surface smoothness) and place lights where you would in real life and get results that I pretty much expected.

    But there is a con in your workflow adding new scenes. They get pulled over to defaults as Octane can't interpret many settings. Material textures and bump maps come over, but typically glossiness and surface smoothness don't. So I mess with that every new scene. Of course once you've tweaked it you can save it, so you don't have to do it over again. RedSpec has great skin making that easy. But another con with Octane is that I've read it's not very stable with Daz Studio if you plan on using it for both.

    I'll post again when I have more time, lots in you post!



  • @'Gator762':

    Ahh yeah, those are like classic stripper heels, the heels portion clear plastic.
    I'd think that should be very easy to do in Iray (or Octane). Iray has a bunch of glass shaders free I think, I also bought some from PC+ for $2 or $3. Start with glass and adjust probably the IOR.

    Okay. I thought it might not be too hard. BTW I got that list for ya–it's that new thread I just started.

    No good Genesis morphs that work in Daz?

    :huh:
    I should clarify I was talking about V4 & M4 content from renderosity…this reply is kind of confusing. There's plenty of good Genesis morphs...what do you mean? There's just nothing at Renderosity...

    I'll tell ya, I was really impressed with V7's genitals. I've tried 2 or 3 with V4, but was never really happy with them. Difficult to match and lacking too much detail.

    You aren't the first to say that.

    No experience with the males. I've been toying with doing some 3DX renders, so now I'm looking for Genesis males now. Have M4 I've used a few times for non-porn renders. As I mentioned, I was curious since you have more experience with the Daz side of the house. Gianni is on sale now, with an extra bonus if you buy Gia.

    I have general experience, no 3DX. Want it bad.

    Well, I can tell you default M4 genitals aren't too great. I you scale them up, the texture looks wrong.

    For V4, Lali's is the best one but the trick is postwork. There's one other I think. Point here is while what generation 4 may have isn't great anymore as it's now years old, it's really the last thing keeping poser crowds with Daz crowds. Erogenesis is working on a major new project to unify content into his singular figure with more articulation and usability thant generations 4-6 and rivaling 7, though the Daz believers who love Genesis 3 say there's no point to his work as Genesis 3 is everything they'd ever hoped. Look, whatever. I'm making a decision to take what I can get.

    Well, you're doing it smart carefully evaluating it. I'm just "Nervous Ron" because I'm really beginning to question the future of Poser vs. DS.

    Okay. Well, that's a fair assessment.

    Didn't get the reference I see. :)

    Also a lot of interface annoyances with Poser. To be fair, Poser's decline or demise has been predicted over and over for years. I'm fairly new to it, so take my opinion with a big grain of salt.

    OK.

    Big factor will be Iray vs. Cycles/Superfly. DS with Iray is free, Poser has a pretty step entry cost.

    we've established this, yes. And your input is helping me to reevaluate. I'm not convinced to ditch Poser entirely, BUT I am leery of throwing down money for a product that may not perform quite so well. You haven't convinced me to just go DS 4.9, though. Even if I stick with Daz, I'm staying 4.8 and under.

    I dunno if you follow Rendo, I do there and they changed the Prime program. Pissed me off and many others too.

    Must be why its membership is only $30/yr now. Long as it gets an appreciable discount I guess…

    So much, in fact I've bought a PC+ membership, and my purchases there dwarf Rendos. And over the past year or so, much more of the new content is for Genesis figures (seems most skipped Genesis and have gone Genesis 2). Now we have Genesis 3, which is picking up steam. Using Genesis in Poser isn't so hot.

    1. Yes, they have some real soul suckers (read: excellent at what they do if making sales is the goal) as marketing managers at Daz. I will credit them that.
    2. Genesis had a number of problems that apparently never got resolved because the outcry over the androgynous singular base made it unpopular. It has all the UVs of generatoin 4 allowing one to use the textures from generation 4. You will note it has some texture issues under armpits and between legs due to lack of polygons in those areas.
    3. Using Genesis and beyond isn't big in Poser, no. But Genesis 2 is probably noticably better if you import it yourself into Poser.

    Do note, however, the arms of V4.2 are a bit short, pointy and noodly. There's 2 products which fix them for both Daz and Poser but you might know about those.

    Also note that if you have scaling issues on generation 4, and beyond, that's because you need "Growing up" for it to function right outside their "native" environment of Daz. Though TBH I though Poser came first. But whatever.

    I still have poke through issues with generation 4 at times in Daz so it may be more a problem with the figure than the program you're using.

    My interface annoyances: The more I'm using Daz Studio, the more I'm liking the interface over Poser. Lots of little things in poser. Posing, the frame object sucks. It always rotates the camera to some crazy rotations making you feel like a sick zero-g astronaut.

    There seems to be some kind of variation of this in all 3D it seems.

    It's so great that I can select and object in Daz and hit frame, and boom I'm there. Granted this is with Octane, but every parameter change requires a scene refresh, which takes quite a while

    Hm. Well, Blender Cycles does require re-optimization every time you alter something, but at least they have a remedy for that.

    So this shoots Octane full of holes, and solidifies the direction of Blender Cycles more for me now. Now I wonder which Poser version has a morph brush that I could buy cheaper, and just code in for rendering in Blender Cycles with that remedy another forumite told me about here.

    . Annoying when you're getting those details like hands and feet not to collide with objects. Loading bigger scenes makes it sluggish. I did a 3 level V7 HD subdivide in DS (default lvl1 preview lvl3 render) - no problem. I did the same thing in Poser and it took about 5 minutes for the render window to even respond.

    Hmm. Disappointing.

    And fitting clothes. Holy shit this is my biggest peeve. You're supposed to be able to use the command "copy morphs from" to transfer all the morphs from your figure to the clothing (don't know if that works at all with Genesis), but with my custom morphs it doesn't work for shit.

    Well, Darthhell told me about that problem, so it seems like this is across the board. He wants to try to transfer his Darth Talon morphs to G2F as an experimental curiosity but it isn't a huge deal for him. He doesn't want to have to use Daz for it…

    Which means I'm using the morph brush to get it to fit, smoothing the mesh to fix distortions, re-fitting because of collisions smoothing the mesh… Then refreshing Octane, but if it's too close for Octane I'll get ugly black or red spots. I've gone to like 95% nude renders cause it's a PITA.

    I loaded up Daz, threw a tight bodystocking on Victoria 7, and it fit. Threw on some custom breast morphs, and it fit!!! Genitals? It fit. Tried a few others, same deal. Then I converted an outfit for V4 to Victoria 7. Top, skirt, stockings. It all worked. Not only that, but I threw on some custom breas morphs again, and holy shit it worked!!! I have a bunch of V4 clothes & lingerie items I've never used or used once I'll have to use again.

    So porn would be easier to do. I see.

    Keep in mind my point of view is limited. I don't know Poser's professional use, or animation. I only know it for rendering images. And I'm not uninstalling it, will just be using it less.

    Well, thanks at least for the heads up and while I'm not abandoning the idea of Poser yet, you have given me valuable pause to reevaluate.

    I'm not about to go for DS 4.9 or Connect, though. I notice some products in the Daz store are now DS 4.9 only, while others retain their global usability across multiple programs despite their updates. Others still have no update but are still globally compatible.

    IF it turns out I can't use my stuff I already own in 4.8 anymore, I'm going to be SO pissed. I mean I'm already irritated, but this is borderline fascist.



  • @'Nuke':

    I've been a loyal Poser user since Poser 3 came out, and bought upgrades all the way up to Poser 7. After that, the 'new features' didn't tickle my pickle, especially since they still needed to fix existing items like the Hair Room. I upgraded to Pro 2014 for the Fitting Room and then to GameDev for the Kinect functionality, because it has always been my goal to do animations in Poser.
    However, the biggest obstacle to that is that almost all the content is made for still imagery, with very few (and uninspiring) dynamic cloth models. Of course if you do find a suitable dynamic outfit, it's just one, has only one style or very limited shape/size morphs, which means only one figure in a scene can wear it.
    That is, unless you don't care about doing a halfway realistic scene.

    Just to point out; 70% of all clothing can be used in the dynamic cloth room. Just because it's not sold as dynamic doesn't mean it isn't. That's only true for Daz dynamic room which is a plug in, handled by one guy, who patched out the option to use it with clothes that don't have his name on them. Good ol' Daz vendor cult.

    Poser has no such problems. Everything by 3DAge can easily be used as dynamic clothing, for example. Even though it's not sold as such.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    Here…
    http://g.e-hentai.org/s/44534b7b2f/516176-32

    Ahh yeah, those are like classic stripper heels, the heels portion clear plastic.
    I'd think that should be very easy to do in Iray (or Octane). Iray has a bunch of glass shaders free I think, I also bought some from PC+ for $2 or $3. Start with glass and adjust probably the IOR.

    Similar but different. It's allowed to link so long as it isn't promoting or advertising for your own stuff or someone else whose payroll you may be on.
    Here:
    http://www.daz3d.com/sexy-platform-sandals-for-v4-a4-v4elite

    Very stripper-esque, no? There is a genesis version which, as you may know, is forward compatible with G2F at least. Can't speak to G3F.

    Yeah, those are good. I think these from Daz are more like the classic stripper heels, like these:
    http://www.daz3d.com/three-pairs-of-sandals
    I have those. There's also a great texture pack for them on Rendo, from idler168 I think. :D

    You're gonna make me list them off? :) Tell ye what, I'll start looking into my wishlist for Renderosity but I'll have to edit this post later on and post it here.

    <<<<<<<

    Suffice it to say I have asked some of the 'rosity staff about certain of these products and what I was told was that while the base models would load, the morphs won't work and the textures would need optimizing for Daz in order to render correctly.

    I'm presuming the reasons for the morphs not working is due to
    a) the file formats–poser files are simplified from the Daz file format which has more data. I don't know for sure but I'd guess this affects how the programs "see" and interpret morphing targets. However, I could be wrong, in which case someone who knows feel free to correct me here.
    b) interface not programmed. All the morph dials are coded to Poser and not Daz.

    TL;DR The way the content is made, you could load it into Daz, but Daz wouldn't be able to talk to it and use its properties to manipulate the shape from its base. shrugs

    From Renderotica, obviously the male genitals "my big dick" series for M4. No detailed list here either but there isn't much else there to list.

    No good Genesis morphs that work in Daz? I'll tell ya, I was really impressed with V7's genitals. I've tried 2 or 3 with V4, but was never really happy with them. Difficult to match and lacking too much detail.

    No experience with the males. I've been toying with doing some 3DX renders, so now I'm looking for Genesis males now. Have M4 I've used a few times for non-porn renders. As I mentioned, I was curious since you have more experience with the Daz side of the house. Gianni is on sale now, with an extra bonus if you buy Gia.



  • @'~ArgonCyanide777':

    @'Gator762':

    I like Poser, it's good but also has it's faults. Not trying to dissuade you, just inform you since it ain't cheap either. If it were Daz Studio, well hell it's free I'd just say load it up yourself and try it out. ;)

    Well if I hit a snag or two, I think there are literally entire communities of folks I can turn to. :)
    And for some strange reason you kind of sound like Nervous Ron.

    True enough. I'm already getting the look like I'm crazy because I just threw down on a GTX980. Since people can "code in" blender cycles, that may solve the rendering issue for older versions, but again you made the point that unless I want to deal with what a pain in the ass it is working this stuff manually, tools like the morph brush and the fitting room should be sought after. May not be a huge deal for porn as characters are mostly naked, but for the other fiction comics that'll surely be a concern.

    So I'm carefully evaluating what I'm ultimately going to do with Poser.

    Well, you're doing it smart carefully evaluating it. I'm just "Nervous Ron" because I'm really beginning to question the future of Poser vs. DS. Also a lot of interface annoyances with Poser. To be fair, Poser's decline or demise has been predicted over and over for years. I'm fairly new to it, so take my opinion with a big grain of salt.

    Big factor will be Iray vs. Cycles/Superfly. DS with Iray is free, Poser has a pretty step entry cost. I dunno if you follow Rendo, I do there and they changed the Prime program. Pissed me off and many others too. So much, in fact I've bought a PC+ membership, and my purchases there dwarf Rendos. And over the past year or so, much more of the new content is for Genesis figures (seems most skipped Genesis and have gone Genesis 2). Now we have Genesis 3, which is picking up steam. Using Genesis in Poser isn't so hot.

    My interface annoyances: The more I'm using Daz Studio, the more I'm liking the interface over Poser. Lots of little things in poser. Posing, the frame object sucks. It always rotates the camera to some crazy rotations making you feel like a sick zero-g astronaut. It's so great that I can select and object in Daz and hit frame, and boom I'm there. Granted this is with Octane, but every parameter change requires a scene refresh, which takes quite a while. Annoying when you're getting those details like hands and feet not to collide with objects. Loading bigger scenes makes it sluggish. I did a 3 level V7 HD subdivide in DS (default lvl1 preview lvl3 render) - no problem. I did the same thing in Poser and it took about 5 minutes for the render window to even respond. And fitting clothes. Holy shit this is my biggest peeve. You're supposed to be able to use the command "copy morphs from" to transfer all the morphs from your figure to the clothing (don't know if that works at all with Genesis), but with my custom morphs it doesn't work for shit. Which means I'm using the morph brush to get it to fit, smoothing the mesh to fix distortions, re-fitting because of collisions smoothing the mesh… Then refreshing Octane, but if it's too close for Octane I'll get ugly black or red spots. I've gone to like 95% nude renders cause it's a PITA.

    I loaded up Daz, threw a tight bodystocking on Victoria 7, and it fit. Threw on some custom breast morphs, and it fit!!! Genitals? It fit. Tried a few others, same deal. Then I converted an outfit for V4 to Victoria 7. Top, skirt, stockings. It all worked. Not only that, but I threw on some custom breas morphs again, and holy shit it worked!!! I have a bunch of V4 clothes & lingerie items I've never used or used once I'll have to use again.

    Keep in mind my point of view is limited. I don't know Poser's professional use, or animation. I only know it for rendering images. And I'm not uninstalling it, will just be using it less.



  • @'Gator762':

    Yeah sure, with DSON and Poser that sounds right.

    The exceptions I speak of are some of the monsters I recall Zzomp uses which can be identified as Genesis figures.
    The other with Gazukull being that he's managed to put Lali's bits on a V6 figure with a bit of remodeling. I wasn't sure how well fucking worked between cross generational figures, but they make it look so natural.

    Image link is messed up, so I dunno.

    Oh? Seems to work fine for me… Then again vbulletin forums do get a little wonky about bb coding images on a single page from one machine to another. Here...
    http://g.e-hentai.org/s/44534b7b2f/516176-32

    dx30's V4 platform sandals - can't find them. Are they like dx30's Sexy Platform Sandals 2 for Genesis 3 Female(s) SKU 22936?
    (Is it OK to just put a link here to the stores?)

    Similar but different. It's allowed to link so long as it isn't promoting or advertising for your own stuff or someone else whose payroll you may be on.
    Here:
    http://www.daz3d.com/sexy-platform-sandals-for-v4-a4-v4elite

    Very stripper-esque, no? There is a genesis version which, as you may know, is forward compatible with G2F at least. Can't speak to G3F.

    Those are nice. I'd get them, but they are very similar to outoftouch's Fashionwave Amber's shoes which I already have. :)

    Hm. I hope the custom ones I'm wanting to make for my girls will be enviable and coveted …but I won't hold my breath! :D
    @'Gator762':

    This is what I'm really curious about, what doesn't work with Daz since I guess I'm headed that way now.

    You're gonna make me list them off? :) Tell ye what, I'll start looking into my wishlist for Renderosity but I'll have to edit this post later on and post it here.

    <<<<<<<

    Suffice it to say I have asked some of the 'rosity staff about certain of these products and what I was told was that while the base models would load, the morphs won't work and the textures would need optimizing for Daz in order to render correctly.

    I'm presuming the reasons for the morphs not working is due to
    a) the file formats–poser files are simplified from the Daz file format which has more data. I don't know for sure but I'd guess this affects how the programs "see" and interpret morphing targets. However, I could be wrong, in which case someone who knows feel free to correct me here.
    b) interface not programmed. All the morph dials are coded to Poser and not Daz.

    TL;DR The way the content is made, you could load it into Daz, but Daz wouldn't be able to talk to it and use its properties to manipulate the shape from its base. shrugs

    From Renderotica, obviously the male genitals "my big dick" series for M4. No detailed list here either but there isn't much else there to list.

    I like Poser, it's good but also has it's faults. Not trying to dissuade you, just inform you since it ain't cheap either. If it were Daz Studio, well hell it's free I'd just say load it up yourself and try it out. ;)

    Well if I hit a snag or two, I think there are literally entire communities of folks I can turn to. :)
    And for some strange reason you kind of sound like Nervous Ron.

    DAZ becoming a monopoly won't be a good thing, hope that never happens.

    As much as people talk shit about the concept of competition, I don't hear any of them being such detractors when the innovation and lower prices benefit them as customers. I think these people mistake competition for cronyism that unfairly dominates over competitors and monopolizes the market. Timing has largely to do with its perception, much like humor.

    Personally, I'm finding the Genesis content outpacing the other stuff, and feeling left behind with Poser. Which sucks, as with buying Pro along with Octane and the Poser plug-in for it is a pretty hefty investment for a hobby.

    True enough. I'm already getting the look like I'm crazy because I just threw down on a GTX980. Since people can "code in" blender cycles, that may solve the rendering issue for older versions, but again you made the point that unless I want to deal with what a pain in the ass it is working this stuff manually, tools like the morph brush and the fitting room should be sought after. May not be a huge deal for porn as characters are mostly naked, but for the other fiction comics that'll surely be a concern.

    So I'm carefully evaluating what I'm ultimately going to do with Poser.

    @'thehawkman':

    Well, the cynical bastard in me wouldn't be surprised if they changed their license to prevent third party store from using /selling Genesis 3 content. After all, I don't think they make any money off that content. I've already been right when I called bullshit on the "we don't see ourselves going Connect-only any time soon".

    Well, the contrarian dick I am, and the entrepreneur that I am both agree with your cynical bastard-ness. It would only make business sense to lock everyone else out of Genesis 3. And from what I'm seeing about Genesis 2 they might just pull some retroactive shit. Wouldn't surprise me if the install manager update they snuck in on me has coded the shit I already have on my computer to not work with DS 4.8 and older. At the very least, put some kind of snitch serial coding in so it can't be shared.

    I think Poser 11 supports the hair node from Blender. But don't quote me on that yet. I have to say though that Pauline looks like one hell of a disappointment. Poser 11 has made all the wrong choices (removing the Air Library, putting out terrible figures). I'd say the renderer is the only thing they got right (I personally thought they would go with Reality).

    Isn't there an external Reality plugin for Poser? Blender has a hair strand based thing going on for the hair node IIRC my hair thread. But it can probably also do plane/polygon hair since it's a full 3D suite. As it is I'm looking at Littlefox's tutorials. It says I'll need either MODO or similar modeling program like Maya or Z-brush. I'd like to think turbosquid's Gmax would work.

    I know Poser has the Pixar format, and Alessanro AM's LAMH manual says that hair created can be saved either in object, daz, or renderman curves formats and that renderman curves is compatible with Pixar (for whatever that's worth). There is no rigging for collision detection or smart prop supported yet. I guess that means it'll collide and it has no animation capability. On the plus side it can be put on just about anything and even double as grass.

    Air Library?


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