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  • hmm… this is strange... so strange... but i can't get any difference anymore on new i7 3770k, windows wasn't reinstalled, only drivers, i've tried several different scenes, and result always was same... don't understand this, all i've changed it's only motherboard, cpu and ram...



  • Ah okay, didnt know this before. I am using subpixel mapping by default though. I checked this box when I started out with v-ray because it helped alot near bright light sources to make them not look overly bright etc.

    I did not notice much difference between 1/4 and 1/40 for example. If you download these two and skip between them in an image viewer you pretty much only see slightly less noise in the 1/40 image around shadowy areas. The higher AA max usually kicks in on those parts and cleans up the noise that they low subdivs from the light source create. But as you can see, just upping the lightsource itself creates a quicker render because the noise on the shadows from that lightsource is almost not existant and theres no smoothing needed from the AA there.

    Not sure if this is an AMD problem but lots more AA max value seems to slow down things alot for me. Especially the dof calculations in combination with high max aa made my render speed slow down alot. 1/4 seems to work best for me in almost any situation since I usually just try to change the GI values rather than anything else. Once you understand what each one does its quite easy to find the troublemaker and adjust the setting thats needed for the current problem without having to raise too much quality+rendertime.



  • do you have noticed difference in lighting between 1-4 and 1-20(min-max) subdivs in antialiasing? it's sometimes more darker with max 20 subd, and overall lighting comes more realistic…? and that also kills any noise in reflections or dof for me, but probably you must use subpixel mapping in color output options, it's not so realistic maybe, but officially recommended by Stefan Laub, lead developer of vray4c4d. so your renderings will be very different with subpixel mapping on and off with different min-max parameters, especially between 1-4(8) and 1-20.



  • So here is my first test using almost the same settings as you for the first batch of images.

    My basic settings are 1/4 AA subs at 0.005 theshold. 0.85 Adaptive amount, 8min samples, 0.01 threshold.
    I replaced your mesh light with a c4d area light using vraylight tag. Same settings, colour etc and also placed it in the same spot. Result looks pretty much identical. I also kept the camera and exposure settings this time around. I used a bump map for the floor instead of the normal map though since the normal map gave noisy results for probably being a bit too rough.

    Rendering was done on my phenom 2 x945, using 3 of 4 cores. Reflections, AO etc is all turned on.

    Apart from our difference in colour balance settings and contrast base etc, I guess it comes out quite similar. Theres a slight bit of noise in some of the shadowy corners on the shelves though. I might get these to clean out too though probably just by using bump map instead of normal map for this aswell. Worked on the floor, should work for the shelves too I guess.

    In the end though, those things are so barely noticable if you dont have any comparison, that someone who doesnt specifically look for these things will simply not notice this. So I rather go for speed in that case over very slight noise reduction in darker corners.

    Next one using basically some of the settings you used before. AA Subs 1/40 threshold 0.006, DMC settings unchanged. Reduced light subdivs back to 8.

    Took quite a while ;) Just from that comparison alone I dare say that my usual settings should be quite fast for you too when you compare how long you took for this. 16 minutes or so while it took my crappy machine over 40 minute :D

    On to the closeups. I just put Claudia from my other latest renders into the scene with all her bling and clothes. I used aa min-max 1/4 0.005 threshold and 8 subdivs on the dof, no bokeh. Something worth to note is that I use 16 subdivs for all glossy reflections on the skin shader which I think kinda shows. Its almost perfectly noisefree.

    DOF shows noise and hotspots, which I guess is because of the basic 8 subdivs there. Seems to be an issue with DOF and reflective materials. I try to not use the internal dof anyways though. Using zdepth is usually a better way to get this effect and then add it later with a photoshop plugin. Saves rendering time and you got alot more control about the outcome.

    This one is using a standard render without dof and a zdepth multipass layer, then postworked dof with basic photoshop lens filter using a relatively strong blur and a bit of a gaussian monochrmatic noise addition like you got in real photos. If I put the settings to threshold of 0.01 the rendertime is around 5:30.



  • Another bunch of tests.

    Antialiasing(DMC Sampler):

    1-4;1-20;1-50;1-100 (min-max), treshold - 0.01, DMC settings by default; all subdivisions in scene = 8:

    1-4 - slowest, noisy

    1-20 - faster, less noise, good

    1-50 - fastest, less noise, better

    1-100 - slower, less noise, no change



  • @hzr

    thats what i usually used before, but with vray core 2.0 i got way too much noise with such settings.

    about times, it's 40mins, with all real, including dof.


    AO+Scpec Reflections+all surfaces have bump via normal maps, min - 1, max - 20, treshold - 0.01
    =(



    without spec reflections, min - 1, max - 20, treshold - 0.01



    without spec reflections, without ao, min - 1, max - 20, treshold - 0.01


    without spec reflections, without ao, without bump, min - 1, max - 20, treshold - 0.01
    ok, glossy specular controlled via maps done it's job perfectly! :D
    btw, without bump there appears strange artifacts in speculars….



    AO+Scpec Reflections+all surfaces have bump via normal maps, min - 1, max - 40, treshold - 0.006



  • Fairly basic AA settings here. For clean renders I use threshold of 0.005 and sometimes down to 0.002 if its a tough nut. min/max is 1/4, sometimes 2/4 if I feel like theres some jagged edges to many lines with a lot of contrast.

    DMC Settings are also quite basic. 0.85 adaptive amount sometimes 0.75 but very rarely do I use this low. min samples at 8 and threshold at 0.01.

    I always use c4d area lights, then slap the vray tag on them and use them as area lights from those settings. The only exception is sunlight and hdri lit atmospheric light. Everything else is just area lights. Of course trying to use as realistic values as possible, so always using decay etc and setting the intensity to watt and mostly guessing how much light the specific light might be emitting in a real situation.

    What you mean in the last paragraph? Should I guess how long the image took to render? If so, my guess would be around 4-5 minutes IF the background is just a background and shes not standing in the actual textured room. If shes in a real room then Id say 5-10 minutes. But thats probably how long it might take with my settings on my crappy AMD machine.

    I am running an amd phenom 2 x945 with 8gig ram, so its not ideal for rendering but I still wait a little to switch back to intel, just not right now :)

    We can of course exchange rendertimes etc. Just send me some scenes you want to compare and I will post results with timestamps etc and write down the settings I used and so on.



  • Interesting…

    Please, can you explain your AA settings? Cuz 24 subd for main lights it's too low for me, usually i need something about 128 subd to get non noisy image, but i use large light meshes with vrlight material on it, i found this more bugfree rather then using c4d lights with vrligh tag on it. so i use only 8 subd for every light, aa - dmc sampler, adaptive dmc - min 1, max 20-40, treshold 0.01-02 for tests, and treshold 0.003-0.006 for final images, this gives me perfect image without any noise. But i don't know how right am i in that business.

    Also non vrlight meshes produces strange bugs fro me when Linear Workflow with Gamma 2.2 is on, it's like they doesn't have any decay for very low level of light energy, and they doesn't completely fade out, so i can't render anything proper without vrlight meshes.

    In C4D 11.5-12 with older v-ray version it's wasn't same...

    There another one little question - how much time you can give to my last test render? (http://i.minus.com/iqVXjqEszOVAR.jpg)
    And i really interested to compare our render times with different lighting techniques, to find optimal result. I know it's also hardware based, but maybe we can pass that, if you want... Atm i use [email protected] Probably with i7 3770k it will be three times faster, as i saw in some tests...



  • Hehe well, I doubt most of us are vray+c4d users :)

    My experiences so far have been to use 24 subdivs for main lights and 8-12 for support lights which are not dropping dramatic shadows. This way you get noisefree shadows but also you do not end up with too high render times. Also something to note, dont use unrealistic strong lights. Theres many tutorials around the web that go with 3cm mesh area lights and strength of a few thousand etc. Rather use Watt and keep in mind that a 100 watt lightbulb only emits around 3-4 watt effectively. This should give you a good idea about how strong you should set your lights in many situations to not overexpose. Too much exposure leads to high render times which can be worked around if you set up the scene properly.

    Thats all I got right now :)



  • I second that motion.



  • Now it's probably time to talk about staging lights and render speed optimizations, what do you think? :)



  • Very interesting part where he bakes the ao map for usage as a depth map. Guess I have to give this a try aswell.



  • I saw something similar to what you're saying in this tutorial
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBTB17hcbio
    have no experience with SSS tho, so I can't say if it's useful to you.
    The Paris texture looks good, may give it a try.



  • About the sss settings etc. I found it to be very useful to put a texture into the scatter color layer instead of just a flat red. What I did was using the diffuse map, 100% desaturated in a fusion layer with a red color of 140 10 10 using blend mode color at 95%. This reddens up the greyscale map and makes sure that the lighter parts like fingers, ears etc really get way more red to them than the more solid parts. Of course it would be better to create these blood maps by painting them yourself from the desaturated diffuse map, but if you dont have the patience for it this will give you really good results.

    Quick result using Danaes new Paris texture. Lit by a 20W backlight(10x power of a regular light bulb), 5w from right side and an hdri at low power.

    Eye textures kinda suck on this set, but the rest is pretty good as usual from this vendor.



  • thanks for the into hitman. GraceLion I cannot get (or anyone else for that matter) but Lady of the Moon I can get, Thanks again!

    ~GO



  • @GumpOtaku

    GraceLion Hair, and probably Lady Moon armor…

    @HRZ

    As usual pretty damn good results!
    Thank you for pointing me into this things, this is very helpful! Already tryed them, and they works like a charm!



  • @hitman

    what's the outfit and the hair? Just wanna know…

    ~GO



  • Yeah thats actually a good idea. I just forgot about painting that in since it was more about the testing of the general look of the bump. I could have used the nipple material zone and just added more bump there but to me this always give the impression that those two areas are not connected, so I think the best way will be to use a brush and enlighten the bumps in the nipple area and up the contrast there quite a bit.

    Thanks for noticing this, should add quite alot more realism.

    edit : Actually, I was just thinking about using displacement maps for alot of subtle details like the nipples, some veins maybe, more wrinkles and such around areas like the neck, upper head, chin, some wrinkles at the backside of the heel and such things. But I have yet to find something like this. Anyone know about some good displacement maps for V4? I have not really used Zbrush or other sculpting tools yet, so I dont know how great I would be at painting those myself, although I will surely try if theres nothing around yet ;)



  • Looking very good, hzr. I would've increased the bump/normal map's strength on the nipples. I think that makes them more natural, less plastic looking.

    bump strength 20%

    bump strength 50%


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