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  • Speaking as someone who has been a friend of pirates, and used to run with them a long time back, Larry is right. Most of them will pay the artist directly over paying a site. They want to see things created and want it done, but don't want to fund the 'middle management' to have it created. This means not supporting sites which take a cut of the artists sales. This is why I prefer to pay poser content creators directly, to give them money via paypal, or their own websites, than through a merchant site. More gets to them, and that helps them continue to be creative.



  • @'Epoch':

    At this point, it's unlikely he'll get funded, since pirates are notoriously cheap and want shit for free (isn't that the whole point of not paying the artist directly?). Still, it's the principle of the matter. I hope they get their shit together.

    That Mike thing sort of looks like a scam. The link provided doesn't have anything to do with the service he says he wants to provide. Also, people that aren't proficient in a language really should get proofreaders.

    I'm sorry to hear that Patreon is a poor fit for you. I think you'd do very well there.

    Epoch, I want to do what you do. I want to make my living from storytelling. Eventually. To this end I'm studying storytelling and how to make my own art. I'm also studying pirates, because you have to take those guys into account.

    It turns out that pirates really really like Patreon. They like it because they can directly pay an artist. Example; https://www.patreon.com/InCaseArt He's got a lot of pirates contributing to him every month. Why are they doing that when InCase lets everyone see his art for free, almost no strings attached?

    First, the string. If InCase doesn't make a living from Patreon, he goes back to doing commissions and working for the pay wall sites. The flow of art doesn't stop, but it slows down to a drip.

    Second, most pirates are workers or students that also work, not investors or managers. They see InCase as one of them.

    Pirates want to see art first. They don't want to pay for a copy that they're only going to look at once and then delete or consign to the deepest pit in their storage never to be looked at again. It's not uncommon for artists to be found only through piracy.

    Consider where the value is added in the production of an image. It's at the creation the image obviously. Without the knowledge, creativity and hard work of Epoch, there would be no Epoch images. A considerable value. Most pirates will realize this and know that if Epoch doesn't get paid he'll make far fewer images. They believe that somebody else will pay for Epoch to keep making art.

    Where's the disconnect here? Very little value is added by the process of just making a copy of a digital image. After all, it's so cheap and simple that even a pirate can do it. ;)

    So, pirates are not willing to pay for copies of art, but are sometimes willing to pay for the production of art. This is one of the main strengths of sites like Patreon or Offbeatr. By connected payment to the production of art rather than copying it you'll pull in patrons you wouldn't have otherwise.



  • I'm indifferent to Patreon as a service. I don't use it to try and generate extra money, and I don't intend to back anyone. But shit like this pisses me off:

    https://www.patreon.com/YoungMike

    I've already filed a complaint with Patreon regarding his use of their service to fund upgrades that would allow him to hide all the copyrighted content now puts behind paywall on a cloud server where it's accessible only to members. Patreon needs to keep a closer eye on what people are using their service for.

    At this point, it's unlikely he'll get funded, since pirates are notoriously cheap and want shit for free (isn't that the whole point of not paying the artist directly?). Still, it's the principle of the matter. I hope they get their shit together.



  • Okay, brief run down of GamerGate (I've been in it once Day one)

    Game Dev gets positive press by games media
    Ex-BF of Game Dev reveals she was sleeping with journalist who gave her positive press
    Game Dev files DMCA on videos talking about it, Streisand Effect takes over, word gets out after
    Instead of apologizing for violation of ethics, games media sites close ranks and call gamers hetero cis male white neckbeard losers who don't deserve to have games.
    Women who support ethics in journalism, as well as minorities rally behind a black man and create NotYourShield to say "up yours, we want ethics!"
    In two day frame, 14 separate articles come out all declaring "gamers are dead" and "gamers are over" and "gamers don't have to be your audience. Collusion suspected as sites are all competing.
    Collusion is uncovered, links to government run DARPA funded think tanks exposed and published by right wing media outlets.
    Mainstream left wing media gets involved, listens to games media, calls gamers angry sexist men worse than ISIS

    This has been going on since August of 2014. Us gamers are not giving up, and the SJWs are getting more and more vocal.

    Now, why Patreon and why 8chan?

    One of the people against GamerGate, a game dev Brianna Wu (not the one sleeping around) started making fun of GamerGate, and as you can guess, got flack for it. Immediately she cried harassment and claimed 4chan was behind it. She began using Patreon to get money because of the supposed harassment (some of which was proven to be her harassing herself) 4chan eventually was destroyed when moot (the guy who ran it) started dating a SJW, and decided to ban all GamerGate discussion on the site. HotWheels (Frederick Bannon) the creator of 8chan, welcomed all 4chan over to his board, and thus began the exodus. In a mainstream news broadcast, with both Wu and Bannon, Bannon said flat out "It's not all about you Brianna" Since the giant influx of people, 8chan has become more costly to run, and HotWheels needed more funds, and went to Patreon to get help. Wu has been on a rampage against him since that interview and used her friends there to have his funding pulled.

    Now, does 8chan have hateful shit? Yes. It's a chan board. They are 100% anonymous and so are full of bile, hate…and most of all, freedom of expression. It's basically a place you can go blow off steam, shit post and get it out of your system. Almost no one there is SERIOUSLY hateful, and the people that are would be hateful anywhere they are.

    In the end, it's all a fight between authoritarian left and libertarian left at the most basic level.

    Yes, there has been attacks on porn artists on Patreon, but as long as you don't draw attention to yourself, you should be good. I know that being a member of GamerGate, I am more likely to be targeted by the SJWs, but unless they can PROVE I am taking money for porn art, I am safe. That's one of the tricks I use, I only post links on my Patreon, the actual images are on Ambient Dimension, so some random schmo can't see them. It's a way to protect myself.



  • one more of those things you better just ignore and nothing will happen :D





  • @'miro':

    that's indeed good news… wouldn't say 100% safe, but it seems there may be a hentai fan or two amongst the patreon staff, which is going to help... don't really see how porn in art is so different from real life, but we'll take what we can get... and nice that they specified 3D as valid also :D

    I'd say that the distinction for them is that 3DX doesn't involve actual people, so there's no morality for them to take into account. Basically boiling down to: if someone wants to sit down behind his computer and make babes, that's fine with us. If someone were to take actual people and tape them banging each other, we'd have to take all sorts of considerations into account, and we just cba.

    I honestly wouldn't put it down to anything more than that.



  • just dont show nsfw pictures anywhere in your profile there and dont host your download files there, instead use another hoster and you are safe :)



  • Wow.Just wow.

    Just once i would like to see an online venue be left alone by anti -porn crusaders.

    Child porn is against the law, i get it.

    But 3dfx FANTASY porn?Futa's do not exist ,puritans! They exist digitally and have to be searched out.

    I rarely post here, but i needed to vent.

    Thanks for your time!
    Have a nice day!
    :D


  • administrators

    that's indeed good news… wouldn't say 100% safe, but it seems there may be a hentai fan or two amongst the patreon staff, which is going to help... don't really see how porn in art is so different from real life, but we'll take what we can get... and nice that they specified 3D as valid also :D



  • Thanks for that update moxydoxy. That's a little reassuring indeed.

    Anyone find news on the announcement rikolo mentioned?



  • http://hentaiwriter.tumblr.com/image/105921533214

    Just an update, found via hentaiwriter's tumblr. This is marked Dec. 22nd.

    Seems like anybody doing erotic ART is 100% safe.



  • LOL charging to watch the stream? It's bad news, bro. It's gotta be.



  • So I just got email that there is supposed to be some annoucement tomorrow. Could it be some bad news? However they are charging 2 dollars to watch the stream, that would be just adding insult to injury, so I am hoping it's something unrelated to this topic…



  • "Hush money".

    I understand that it's not everyone's bag, but this is exactly why I've been entirely self-reliant (it's also why I get nothing done - working to support your art yourself takes you away from doing art with the level of daily dedication it takes).

    The on-going problem, of course, is finding places where one can openly share one's works with like-minded individuals. Sites come and go, whether due to the high traffic costing more than the site takes in, or the site gets so big that it "shows up on radar". Once it hits radar, the Puritans go on another Crusade.



  • ^^I agree on all the major points.

    Patreon makes it easy to be discreet. The effort to prove an artist is making restricted content on the Patreon dime is super difficult. There are also lots of workarounds, like not posting the actual content on Patreon.

    If you don't have restricted kinks, there's always Offbeatr but they take a large (but fair) percentage as the cost of discretion.



  • Sadly, there are hordes of Puritans who scour all manner of websites looking for porn for the express purpose of pointing it out publicly, thus rallying their fellow Puritans to march in protest.

    The saddest part of it is that THEY are doing all the promotion that artists cannot legally do. The Puritans bring it out into the light - where minors are made aware of it - yet are not held accountable for their actions.

    These are the people who beg you for money to fund their continued efforts to brainwash and corrupt our youth with misinterpretations of ancient texts, twisted revisions of religious ideology, and custom-sculpted doctrines yet also have the highest per-capita incidence rates of child molestation.

    However, on the subject of art patronage - it always comes with a price, and there are precious few people in the world with both the intelligence AND the money to support art for art's sake and expect nothing in return, except the warm-fuzzy they get for supporting art for its own sake.



  • Patreon would like porn artists to be able to be on their site as long as they're discreet. They however, must take action if someone reports the artist for porn content.

    Patreon doesn't allow porn like South Beach doesn't allow flashing of boobs during spring break. They won't lift a finger to stop you unless someone makes them.


  • administrators

    SJW - Social Justice Warrior a variant of the radical feminist, supposedly liberals fighting for human rights, but in actual truth pushing their flavor of socialist ideology in a fascist mob like fashion

    And the situation with Patreon doesn't surprise me, since they're becoming a big deal they will eventually come under attack for allowing porn, Larry's absolutely right about that. So their likely going to give into the pressure of the SJWs or apparently have already done so. All it takes is for enough people to report incase and he will be history, fingers crossed he will stay under the radar. Love that guy's art :)

    So is it right for Patreon to do so? In my opinion. Of course not but if this culture keeps propagating Victorian age sexually repressive ideals, things won't change and we won't ever be able to openly enjoy sex as I think we were born to do. Amazing the lengths people will go through to shame their own sexuality, lol… Anyway, let's find a way to fix that eventually :D


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