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  • Wow. Some pretty strident activists for both sides here. Personally I'm not really keen on it IRL. I use it plenty in "art" simply for the taboo/fetish aspect. But actual real-life animal sex just doesn't do much for me. But hey, if somebody wants to and owns the animal, more power to 'em I guess. Last I checked animals don't exactly possess the cognitive abilities to think "ZOMG i r being violated!". Though if I ever hear of a dog constantly running thru the sprinklers to take a "rape shower" afterwards I might revise my opinion. (Yes, I know, not exactly sensitive to animal rights.)

    On the flip side, what do we do with dolphin rapists? Dolphins will occasionally attempt to aggressively have sex with divers/snorklers. Seriously. It happens. Look it up. What should be done about them?! Do we not have the right to swim in the ocean too? Or is it okay simply because they are animals and it is in their nature? Who will stop the dolphins?! (Besides the Japanese that is.)



  • @'stoper':

    I still don't get it.
    Are you saying that sex with a female animal is wrong, because it cannot have orgasm, therefore cannot enjoy it. But sex with male animal, is ok (even if you're forcing it, holding his balls and use it as a dildo, drugging it…), because at some point it may have an orgasm, therefore enjoy it?
    That's my point, sex without consent is wrong, with or without orgasm.

    p.s. I'm not saying you're wrong, mate, I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

    than ask yourself one question. Is what you have seen an german movie? an american Movie? or an brazil movie? If it is not a german Movie than you don´t need to try understanding german laws with somthing that don´t belong to/in german.
    there are lots and lots of brazil or american home movies out there (brazil has a whole industry for beastiality porn) but i´ve seen very and i mean very few german ones and i can tell i´ve don´t see any dildogging in them.

    and at some point i think your some kind of american lawyer i don´t mean it bad but you twisting my words in my mouth.
    You want the reason why female animals don´t lay on there backs waiting for a man to fuck them where at the same time a woman get on all fours and her dog mount her, than i tell you biological why it is so and you try using that biological fact to justify your own thinkings.

    I don´t have made that law and i don´t know every aspect of it, why would i? i don´t do beastiality and don´t know any human personaly that do it.

    maybe you try find your answers on google.
    Sexuelle Kontakte zwischen Tieren und Menschen waren in Deutschland bis 1969 durch § 175b StGB verboten. Die widernatürliche Unzucht, welche von Menschen mit Tieren begangen wird, ist mit Gefängnis zu bestrafen; auch kann auf Verlust der bürgerlichen Ehrenrechte erkannt werden. (§ 175b in der Fassung vom 28. Juni 1935). Die Strafbarkeit wurde 1969 durch die Große Strafrechtsreform aufgehoben. Gewisse Grenzen setzen hier weiterhin die Tierschutzgesetze und, falls es sich um fremde Tiere handelt, die strafrechtliche Bestimmung zur Sachbeschädigung (§ 303).

    in honor katzekage



  • I still don't get it.
    Are you saying that sex with a female animal is wrong, because it cannot have orgasm, therefore cannot enjoy it. But sex with male animal, is ok (even if you're forcing it, holding his balls and use it as a dildo, drugging it…), because at some point it may have an orgasm, therefore enjoy it?
    That's my point, sex without consent is wrong, with or without orgasm.

    p.s. I'm not saying you're wrong, mate, I'm just trying to understand your point of view.



  • @'stoper':

    @'Katzekage':

    First of all is a human woman one of a very very few female being that can have an orgasm (and pleasure from intercurse), in 99% of all existing animals there is only the instinct to spread the GENs, to make children for the receipt of the race.
    Don´t know if it is teached in your country but in germany in biological lessons it will teached.

    What does orgasm has to do with it?
    If you rape a woman, her body may react to the stimulation, does that mean that she's enjoying it?

    p.s. About the law, you were saying that "as long as you don´t make it public… it is legal", which sounds strange to me.

    … ok last try maybe you get it maybe not...
    an orgasm and the pleasure to get it is everything!! Why in natures name should a female have sex without feeling something good? yes absolut no reason other than pure proliferation!
    Why you should eat cocolate if you taste nothing? there would be no reason.

    pyramid......

    Top: "The Sexuality of a Human being is untouchable"
    §1 Sex with children is crime
    §2 injures of animals is crime
    §3 intercurse without permission is crime
    §4 and so on and so on.
    §125 Intercurse with an animal is ilegal if you disturb others.
    §126 If you make the Intercurse with an animal public via Voice, Picture or script you do a crime.
    §127 and so on and so on.

    is it now clear? and this is an example not the correct law.

    honor katzekage



  • @'Katzekage':

    First of all is a human woman one of a very very few female being that can have an orgasm (and pleasure from intercurse), in 99% of all existing animals there is only the instinct to spread the GENs, to make children for the receipt of the race.
    Don´t know if it is teached in your country but in germany in biological lessons it will teached.

    What does orgasm has to do with it?
    If you rape a woman, her body may react to the stimulation, does that mean that she's enjoying it?

    p.s. About the law, you were saying that "as long as you don´t make it public… it is legal", which sounds strange to me.



  • @'stoper':

    About male/female animal you were taking about, that's strange argument. Kind of sexist statement (as strange as it may sound). If you think male animals are enjoying it, who's saying female ones aren't? The women like sex as much as the men, even if they're on the other side of the penetration :)
    If you think female animals are being raped, the same should apply for the male animals as well.

    @'Katzekage':

    Let´s begin with realife Beastiality, i think the legislation in Germany are nearly perfect for it they only need some fine tuning for bigger animals.
    -law saying that as long as you don´t make it public or in a way that thirds are getting disturbed, it is legal.

    That's downright insane, is that a real law? "As long as you don't make it public"?… So, as long as we don't catch you, you can do everything? They can easily apply this point to every crime law.

    First of all is a human woman one of a very very few female being that can have an orgasm (and pleasure from intercurse), in 99% of all existing animals there is only the instinct to spread the GENs, to make children for the receipt of the race.
    Don´t know if it is teached in your country but in germany in biological lessons it will teached.

    second, there is no law saying beastiality and Zoophilie is legal. The law is like This: "The sexuality of a Human being is untouchable." this is the abolut top of the laws, and befor somthing very stupic comes in your mind to argue against that. It´s a Pyramid

    Top: "The Sexuality of a Human being is untouchable"
    §1 Sex with children is crime
    §2 injures of animals is crime
    §3 intercurse without permission is crime
    §4 and so on and so on.
    In germany there are may more bureaucracy than every other country or land in the world, but that has weakspots as well there are to many grey zones between laws and there paragraphs.

    in honor Katzekage

    P.S. what you have seen with the woman and the dog is only naturel that the "husband" or "coworker" need to hold the dog. The dog fucks the woman but not nearly as long as a man would do so if they want some "action" they need to stretch the scene alot. Normaly a male dog would knot the female and for 15-30min he can´t get out of the female dog, in beastiality it´s very rare that the knot don´t comes out of the woman, so they do somthing that is known as dildogging.. stupid as hell but i only know it i don´t need to watch something idiotic like that.



  • @'dizzydills':

    And that is exactly my point. They can't consent to anything. They chase the sheep away because we punish them if they don't.

    Well, the most common way of training a dog is by rewarding it when it does what you want :) Not sure if that punishing method actually works.
    The point is in the pain factor. By teaching it to chase the sheep you don't hurt the dog, it's in his nature to run around.

    I can see you point tho. I just think that teaching your dog to chase the ball, and holding him by the balls while a woman is giving him a blowjob, are two completely different things :)



  • well i would say no to guro and pedophile even in 2d/3d but bestiality i dont see any prob, in fact i like XD



  • In Argentina we hate someone else decide what we see and what we can not see… we hate censorship, we love the holidays, we punish the wisdom and we reward ignorance :D
    :P no talking seriously now, I do not like someone else decides what I can see! that definitely don´t like. I am not a fan of bestiality, but there are an artist that I really like and he started doing that kind of art.
    I see pornography as a video showing two or more people wanting to be filmed while having sex.
    In the bestiality that does not happen, because the animal can not decide if he wants be filmed to entertain people who see these videos
    In the 3dx or 2d art I don´t have problem because they are fictitious characters, only exist in the imagination of the artist...
    :cool: at least that is my opinion :cool:
    Say no to the censorship and do not let someone else decide for you what you can see



  • @'stoper':

    That's the point, it cannot consent. Therefore doing it is wrong.

    And that is exactly my point. They can't consent to anything. They chase the sheep away because we punish them if they don't. Clearly there is some behavior modification to be done if they are going to live indoors. But the point stands, anytime you train an animal to do something that it does not do naturally, they cannot consent to it, and therefore by your definition is wrong.

    Again I am not a crusader for those who want to fornicate with animals, I just find fault with why people consider it wrong.



  • @'dizzydills':

    I enjoy this "animal selective rights" mentality here. People don't hesitate to break an animals will or spirit to suit their needs. We have collars that inflict pain on pets if they don't act or behave in a manner we approve of.

    We actively euthanize animals that exhibit predator instincts. We test chemical products on them. But sex, whoa there you might be doing something against their will! Where exactly do animal rights begin, and end? When and where do you consider an animal's right to "think for itself" or consent to an activity?

    Breaking their spirit and will, sounds a little gray. If you mean, that teaching your dog to guard the sheep, catch the ball, or not peeing on the carpet is braking their spirit, I will disagree. It's just like teaching your kid not to pee on the carpet. All creatures have that wild spirit, that should be suppressed a little :)

    Not sure how exactly are the things with the collars that inflict pain. But I'm sure it's addressed buy some law. Inflicting pain to the animals is a crime, so the device isn't important.

    Euthanizing an animal is like death sentence to a human, if someone is dangerous for the society…
    Though, that's a gray area as well, and forbidden in many countries.

    @'dizzydills':

    Consent is an issue for sentient beings. Obviously an animal cannot consent to an activity the way an adult human does.

    That's the point, it cannot consent. Therefore doing it is wrong. Just like a kid is considered a person not capable of consenting to a sexual act.

    @'dizzydills':

    Also the amount of consideration we give them is apparently more than they give us. Anyone that had a dog attempt to mount them, or had their leg humped, I doubt the k9 asked for your consent.

    Heheh, come on, it's not like the dog is having sex with you, it's just an instinct. And if you really feel that bad, there are always pain inflicting collars ;)

    @'dizzydills':

    I am not saying its right or wrong either way, I have issues with this myself as its a grey area. But if you claim its wrong because you're violating the will of the animal, then almost every pet owner, animal trainer, non vegan, soap using human being, is just as guilty.

    Issues that we're trying to resolve one step at a time. At least we can try to avoid the ones that are completely unnecessary. It's not like we don't have anything else to fuck, right? :)



  • I enjoy this "animal selective rights" mentality here. People don't hesitate to break an animals will or spirit to suit their needs. We have collars that inflict pain on pets if they don't act or behave in a manner we approve of.

    We actively euthanize animals that exhibit predator instincts. We test chemical products on them. But sex, whoa there you might be doing something against their will! Where exactly do animal rights begin, and end? When and where do you consider an animal's right to "think for itself" or consent to an activity?

    Consent is an issue for sentient beings. Obviously an animal cannot consent to an activity the way an adult human does. At the same time, there is less risk (in general assuming your not doing anything too crazy). Pregnancy is clearly not an issue, disease is not as big of an issue either. Psychological trauma would not be nearly as important given an animal's psyche (again assuming you don't cause it pain).

    Also the amount of consideration we give them is apparently more than they give us. Anyone that had a dog attempt to mount them, or had their leg humped, I doubt the k9 asked for your consent.

    I am not saying its right or wrong either way, I have issues with this myself as its a grey area. But if you claim its wrong because you're violating the will of the animal, then almost every pet owner, animal trainer, non vegan, soap using human being, is just as guilty.

    In the end I prefer fictitious works to the real thing. Less complication, no possibility of pain. Content of this type should be legal.



  • @'stoper':

    That's downright insane, is that a real law? "As long as you don't make it public"?… So, as long as we don't catch you, you can do everything? They can easily apply this point to every crime law.

    No this is not an explicit law… looked up our German situation, because I thought Katzekage's statements are rather peculiar too^^
    There aren't any laws that specifically address the issue... there was one till 1970 or so, prohibiting bestiality. But since it was from 1850, the original text also dealt with homosexuality and had rather outdated wording ( "widernatürliche Unzucht") and punishment (you lost your right to marry...lol (+ up to 5 years in jail)) they got rid of it, another justification was that in most cases the culprits are lunatics anyway and normal laws do not apply in these situations...
    So it's not forbidden per se but some other laws restrict it:
    The first one are restrictions for hardcore porn and says that distribution, public advertisement and so on for violent porn and bestiality are forbidden… however simply owning such stuff for ... personal... use is allowed (while owning child porn is not!)
    Most countries have similar laws as far as I know.
    The second law is simply animal welfare… you are not allowed to inflict any harm to animals
    Nothing special here either.
    And since animals are things concerning most laws, harming your neighbors pet is material/property damage...
    The rest is not specified.
    We don't have any laws that say: "You can do it with your cow, goat, horse and chicken not your pig though, in your barn, but not in front of it" :P



  • I've seen some in art form (drawings, 3D) and I didn't mind. It's crazy and cool, like most of the drawn porn.
    There was also a scene in some Emmanuelle movie (I think), where a girl was giving a handjob to a horse.

    But then I saw a real-life video uploaded in the net, a girl with a dog, and it took only a quick glance to the screencaps to run away from it. Real-life stuff looks weird.
    In comics and 3D the animals are fucking the girls, in that video it looked more like a forced penetrations. On the screenshots there were some guys who were holding the dog, or the girl was holding it, it didn't look as if the animal was enjoying it at all.

    About male/female animal you were taking about, that's strange argument. Kind of sexist statement (as strange as it may sound). If you think male animals are enjoying it, who's saying female ones aren't? The women like sex as much as the men, even if they're on the other side of the penetration :)
    If you think female animals are being raped, the same should apply for the male animals as well.

    @'Katzekage':

    Let´s begin with realife Beastiality, i think the legislation in Germany are nearly perfect for it they only need some fine tuning for bigger animals.
    -law saying that as long as you don´t make it public or in a way that thirds are getting disturbed, it is legal.

    That's downright insane, is that a real law? "As long as you don't make it public"?… So, as long as we don't catch you, you can do everything? They can easily apply this point to every crime law.

    @'Katzekage':

    -Second law, as long as there is no harm for the animal it i legal.

    That's the point, who's the one who can tell whether Hans' goat likes it or not?

    @'Katzekage':

    But whoever think beastiality or Zoophilie is something new is on a very wrong way, the earliest records comes from the old Roman. In there society it had a fixed place in brothels you could pay woman to do it with animals and even in the great arena the colosseum there was beastiality from time to time.

    There were a lot of crazy things happening in Rome at that time, most of them are forbidden nowadays :)

    Girls with horse cocks, is that a bestiality?
    According to the dictionary bestiality is:
    1. bestial behaviour, character, or action
    2. sexual activity between a person and an animal


  • administrators

    @'Alpensepp':

    The whole "can't judge the situation, can't give consent"-thing is used as an argument against sex with children too… even if a child agrees and the body reacts, it's a crime (and rightfully so). They are not able to fully grasp the situation, but are protected by law.
    And many people think the same rules should apply to animals.

    I'm delving into unknown territory, so I'm not the best to answer, but in general I would say that's a strong argument.



  • @'miro':

    Ermm… how do you interpret a hard-on?

    As a physical reaction to stimulation… it's not exactly the same as "agree to have sex".
    The whole "can't judge the situation, can't give consent"-thing is used as an argument against sex with children too... even if a child agrees and the body reacts, it's a crime (and rightfully so). They are not able to fully grasp the situation, but are protected by law.
    And many people think the same rules should apply to animals.


  • administrators

    @'Alpensepp':

    Imo "animals can't consent" is one of the best arguments against beastiality, it's almost always used by animal welfare organizations. Just because an animal does not actively disagree, does not mean it agrees either. Using something like arousal as an indicator for agreement does not really work. You can't tell if it understands the situation (most probably not) nor can you really interpret the reaction…

    Ermm… how do you interpret a hard-on? But yeah, it's a definite grey area especially with female animals, but only someone who's really fond of the genre would know of the nuances and possible pro arguments/ work arounds here...



  • @'Ninmenka':

    Permitted means 'allowed'. Incest is pretty much illegal everywhere. For good reason too. Did you mean prohibited?

    Also - animals can't consent. Topic over.

    Yes, I meant prohibited… mixed up the words :s
    I fixed the same error in another spot, but missed this one...

    Imo "animals can't consent" is one of the best arguments against beastiality, it's almost always used by animal welfare organizations. Just because an animal does not actively disagree, does not mean it agrees either. Using something like arousal as an indicator for agreement does not really work. You can't tell if it understands the situation (most probably not) nor can you really interpret the reaction...


  • administrators

    As for RL beastiality, you don't need verbal consent, consent can be given in terms of gesture, the issue of whether drugs or force were used, etc is always a question I mean even with normal human porn.

    It seems if you'd want to be 100% sure no one was harmed 3DX is the way to go. 3DX is def a whole different kettle of fish. There are a lot fewer things that need to be banned when it comes to 3DX, even some of the taboo ones.


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