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  • administrators

    I bought Messiah3D when it was on special. Tbh though, I've never used it for my animations.

    The tool I would want to upgrade to is probably Modo 601, since that's more of a fully featured package and does other things like rendering and modelling, etc. Either that or Maya.

    I may give it another shot though, just to compare, but the problem is always the complications that crop up when working with too many 3D applications, really gets in the way!



  • @'miro':

    Very nice animation, love the bouncy boobies :)

    I think Max, Messiah or Modo they all do nice soft body physics but you have to really have to plan out the work flow and test every element, which is something I'm working out atm as well.

    Thank you!

    Anybody here you recall have use Messiah3D ?
    I would sure love to see it and maybe get pointers(no pun intended)


  • administrators

    Very nice animation, love the bouncy boobies :)

    And yes after all this time the problem still is import/ export. Poser/ Daz have the assets and the high-end apps have the capabilities, making the two work together is a pain though.

    Poser and Daz animation features are limited and no soft body physics, plus you really need a diff app to render.

    I've thought about rigging in a different app, if it's easy enough to bring other assets like clothing across as well that could work, but it's not that simple. Making everything yourself is time consuming, on the other hand you can better, more refined results.

    I think Max, Messiah or Modo they all do nice soft body physics but you have to really have to plan out the work flow and test every element, which is something I'm working out atm as well.



  • http://www.cyberdreamcreation.com/images/SSStest.mov
    I haven't been able to import a working MDD file into poser 8, but I have been able to get a pose and obj file, and SSS render out of it. I have tried several 3D program and so far I like Hash animation master for the soft body dynamics on the breast. Supposedly the latest version improvement on hair and they added a retopology feature. This might be a way to take on poser/daz model and reconstruct it in Hash and then use their spring system.

    Another work flow that I am working on is using Messiah3D and it supposedly have soft body. I am sure you all have similar work flow with other 3D program. The problem with Poser export to Hash is the mesh is too dense in the different file format. I am able to export the MDD file from Hash to Lightwave3D and to messiah3D.

    I like the content that Poser/Daz have to offer and so far that seem to be the only thing that I can use it for. This is my first post, and I am always interested in new workflow.


  • administrators

    this is mostly a problem with western artists only because everyone uses the same base models, which come with terrible "parts"

    if you look at japanese who mostly use custom models, there's no such problem and everything opens up as it should :)

    these problem areas will be fixed eventually though as Western artists get used messing with the actual mesh more, same deal with hair, I've seen pretty good hair, that moves realistically and it will get better :)

    just take a look at current hollywood cg movies to see what will come to 3DX in a few years!



  • I don't mind these graphical glitches, I'm mostly a comics fan, and like you said in still pics the problems can be minimized with Photoshop/shadows/camera angles…
    Not a fan of close shots, so the imperfection of the holes is not a problem for me :)



  • Problem 3: the imperfection of the models

    I have yet to see a vagina or anus, that performs or reacts "realistically", not so much of a problem in still images as they can be photoshopped to be improved (Zzomp says "his" anus is 100% photoshop, sounds painfull :D ), but when it comes to animations the unrealsim really begins to show, especially with large penetrations, which nearly all animation I've seen attempts to rectify this problem by simply enlarging the vagina to accomodate its "guest", which just looks awful, an inability to stretch and deform is maybe the problem?

    Hair also seems to be almost impossible to get looking "real" in a still pic, even more so in animation, even when the hair is dynamic it still looks artifical, a situation made worse when it "clips" or collides with other parts of the model and disappears as if penetrating the skin.


  • administrators

    @'Supro':

    No matter how well the art looks, the perception of what people think of the artist and of the industry is really what stops 3DX from achieving its goal as a viable medium. Sure, we can create our own virtual star like Ayako, Gisella, Lana, or others and they're accepted by those who are fans of it. But take it outside of the fanbase and you get that "That was made by a computer geek pervert" reaction.

    It took decades for video gaming to be accepted as a social form of media and even then, it still has problems by how its perceived and cheapens its value to society (Spike VGAs anyone?). Hell, porn stars have really started to break through in more mainstream roles. While I do think 3DX will be socially accepted, it won't be within this generation. It will take time to get there and a lot of patience before it moves on and becomes a seizable part in the porn industry.

    Ewww, I personally dont think of the artist when looking at hentai or 3DX and I don't think people have the perception it's geeks behind it all, I think it's more towards eccentric artist or similar, like painter or more a graphic designer even. I don't know the that's first thought that popped into my head, I haven't thought about it all and as I said I just don't see the artists only the art. The only other stigma as far as I'm concerned is the general porn related moral high brow, but because there's an art aspect to it and the perception of how technically involved it is it's a little more muted.

    Yes, it took a while for video games to get accepted, but seriously, it's like rock'n roll in the 50's or whatever there may have been some acceptance issues early on but as soon as the youth grows up it's all mainstream.
    Yeah I don't think porn + 3DX will be fully socially accepted for as long as the majority of humans believe in tradition, however 3DX will do a great deal to raise porn's profile.

    Actually I really don't care about social acceptance to be honest I just care about governments making porn a crime in many instances or sub classing it as abnormal behavior that's just ludicrous and borderline insane.



  • @'fredfred5150':

    @Supro
    What pornstar has made it in the mainstream world?, to my knowledge the only "porn actress to legit actress" is the beautiful Tracy Lords, People may know who Jenna Jameson is and she may have made occasional appearances in mainstream media but that is not a true crossover.

    I suppose another who sort of made the cross was Andrea True, besides being a 70's pornstar she also sang that disco tune "More More More"

    Katie Morgan had a pretty significant role in the movie Zack & Miri Make A Porno. And while I don't like her, Sasha Grey did star in a movie directed by Steven Soderbergh (guy who directed the Ocean Eleven movies) and did do voice work on Saints Row 3.



  • Stallone! :D



  • @'miro':

    1. can you figure out the third based on the above?

    Is the answer…...

    1. someone who is able to solve problems 1 and 2 ?

    if not....please enlighten us oh wise and great one :)

    @Supro
    What pornstar has made it in the mainstream world?, to my knowledge the only "porn actress to legit actress" is the beautiful Tracy Lords, People may know who Jenna Jameson is and she may have made occasional appearances in mainstream media but that is not a true crossover.

    I suppose another who sort of made the cross was Andrea True, besides being a 70's pornstar she also sang that disco tune "More More More"



  • That sounds like a plan!



  • I also think mainstream 3d modelling in media like games will help steer people toward 3dx, think of how many fansites there are for various videogame hotties (Lara Croft or the DOA girls for example) so there are a lot of people out there who find 3d women sexy, especially the younger generation, who have grown up with them, maybe they will help generate demand for 3dx

    I know I'd like to see Nina Williams from the Tekken series do 3dx ;)



  • Socially accepted, this will probably never happen. Our society has problems talking about regular sex in public, so theres not much hope that 3dx will be "mainstream" acceptable. But it doesnt have to be anyways.

    If it actually reaches a point where it is seen as normal as regular porn, then it is at a point where it will probably settle in. And no further :) I would just be happy if we make more fans and things will get quicker to produce, so the playing field between regular and artificial porn will be somehow even.

    The younger generation of people are way more attached to computers than for example "our" generation. I just assume that the guys regularly joining into discussion on these board are ppl around 25+ at least from what I heard you guys saying…
    ... and just think about it: I remember times where I did not have any kind of computer in my life, I think I really started with all of this at the age of around 13/14 and today those kids often start using computers at a very young age. They pick up anime stuff alot more than earlier generations did and this alone gets them affected to this, and might make them open to watching hentai stuff, and from there to 3dx, its not a big step :D
    Most kids of today in a western society dont even know a life without a computer of any kind, so I am very sure that they will be more open to 3d porn.



  • Hate to do this, but whenever people think of a pornstar, they think like this:

    Whenever people think of a 3D artist, it's most likely this:

    No matter how well the art looks, the perception of what people think of the artist and of the industry is really what stops 3DX from achieving its goal as a viable medium. Sure, we can create our own virtual star like Ayako, Gisella, Lana, or others and they're accepted by those who are fans of it. But take it outside of the fanbase and you get that "That was made by a computer geek pervert" reaction.

    It took decades for video gaming to be accepted as a social form of media and even then, it still has problems by how its perceived and cheapens its value to society (Spike VGAs anyone?). Hell, porn stars have really started to break through in more mainstream roles. While I do think 3DX will be socially accepted, it won't be within this generation. It will take time to get there and a lot of patience before it moves on and becomes a seizable part in the porn industry.


  • administrators

    But the turn of this decade 3DX will be huge, a big portion, perhaps even the most prominant of porn. I think we've covered the reasons why.

    I think there are 3 main reasons it hasn't already done so.

    1. the technical side, but this is becoming less of a problem day by day, the tools are become faster, more powerful and easier to use, same with the hardware… on the other hand artist are becoming more knowlegable for now but i agree with the ease of use there will eventually be a shift towards artistic expression vs the required technical know-how
    2. social acceptance, I hate to say it, but there are far better 3D artists working for say Pixar than we have in 3DX atm and one reason is porn is frowned upon and 3DX still has the porn deprevity stigma, I do think this is a blessing and a curse.. so yeah, some people wouldn't look at porn as being a regular job... BUT 3DX will change that, because 3DX will have the looks AND brains! I think 3DX will contribute to porn (at least the 3D version of it) being a valid and dare I say socially acceptable entertainment industry in the future, although personally I couldn't care less whether it's socially acceptable, I just want it to perverse, sexy and fun :D
    3. can you figure out the third based on the above?


  • @'stoper':

    Lack of content doesn't mean lack of quality. There are tons of porn material spawning the market every day, but I haven't seen anything memorable for a long time. Most of the porn is extremely cheap.
    We don't have much 3DX nowadays, but I can name at least several people who are creating awesome stuff, fresh and sexy, without any limitations.

    I'm a quality instead of quantity guy so I agree that at least %90 of real porn is repetitive and predictable (although some scenes are great), and some 3dx is truly suberb, but its still just a fraction, I can only think of a handful



  • Lack of content doesn't mean lack of quality. There are tons of porn material spawning the market every day, but I haven't seen anything memorable for a long time. Most of the porn is extremely cheap.
    We don't have much 3DX nowadays, but I can name at least several people who are creating awesome stuff, fresh and sexy, without any limitations.

    Yes, 3DX is time consuming work and that's bad. Even if one day we get to see more people working on one material, it'll still be much more difficult than making a porn video/pics.
    With the new software and hardware (that posing doll hzr mentioned sounds cool :)) the process will become faster tho, even easier.



  • Yep time is a big factor, plus the fact that most of us arent really pro when it comes to actually handling the tools. Be it the software, or knowledge of photography and light, mostly no background in arts etc. Most of us are just hobby artists give or take a few exceptions.

    I know that I am just learning by doing since around a year ago when I stopped just "consuming" and actually picked up some tools and saw how far I could take it. And it is still a learning process, especially since I always have to tinker around with new programs ;)

    What miro said, about giving the models personality, this is really a big problem. Because most of the 3dx girls come from the same base, Victoria4. And if you have seen enough 3dx images, you can really tell which model was used in an image. Also, most people still rather use some presets instead of developing something of their own. This is all usually stuff that goes hand in hand by the time factor due to render speeds and scene layout.

    I am sure, once we got some really good kinect applications, one of those time factors will get really small. Imagine posing your models by just moving yourself. Posing females this way might be a bit awkward though, but ALL IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE! The biggest time saver would be hand poses though and actually really grabbing things without having to move around around 20 joints. Theres also some asian company selling some device thats looking like a small artistic posing doll. You can bend it around with your hands and it reacts to the software and moves the 3d joints around, so this might also be a quick way to pose compared to what we have now.

    And then GPU rendering and maybe specialized 3d rendering solutions for human figures etc. Maybe we will see some game engine in a few years that actually does this job. Who knows :)


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